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I think it's becoming evident that 18 is no longer an appropriate age to consider someone an adult. This isn't really even unprecedented, the age at which child

by learc83 11y ago

I think it's becoming evident that 18 is no longer an appropriate age to consider someone an adult. This isn't really even unprecedented, the age at which children were considered adults has shifted throughout history, and to me, it looks like it's shifting again. These problems seem to arise because children are demanding to be treated like children, but we're making the mistake of thinking of them as adults.

striking 11y ago
As someone who recently turned 18, I disagree. From my perspective, these children are coddled to hell and back. They're expecting colleges to parent rather than to teach. That's just how they grew up, that's just how they'll try to shape the environment. They don't want to fit the environment, they want the environment to fit them. I've been a competent programmer since I was 16 and not having a degree means no one cares. What does it even mean to be an adult?
- sosuke 11y ago
  > What does it even mean to be an adult? I've thought of that often. The more time went by the more I found the adults around me were ultimately fallible. The older I've gotten I've questioned my capacity as well. Am I being a good adult? What qualities to I aspire to have? The people I see make it the farthest have the toughest hides. Life doesn't just throw shit at you from time to time it is a waterfall of crap. There is never a right time and waiting for it doesn't help. The adults I like the most set boundaries on life and work. They generally complain a great deal less. They have just as much to complain about, but choose not to waste time on trying to change the things they can't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer O God, give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed, The courage to change what can be changed, and the wisdom to know the one from the other I've fallen back to that recently. I've focused my energy on things that I can do to make a difference. For me, for my family and friends. I haven't figured it out. You've no doubt heard of the programmer's imposter syndrome? Well I'm starting to believe that some of the best adults feel like adult imposters. I could ramble for a while on this I guess.
  - striking 11y ago
    Thank you for your post. I'm definitely going to keep the Serenity Prayer in mind, that's really powerful.
- freditup 11y ago
  > What does it even mean to be an adult? I think the easiest to define mark of adulthood come when you're attempting to provide for yourself (and perhaps others). For many, college is essentially four years of an all-expenses paid vacation. This is hardly a time of maturity. It's fun as anything for sure, but at this point most people are consuming from the world and contributing little back. Kids who have to work (for more than just spending money) or who have to play a large part in taking care of their siblings seem to grow up faster. This is admittedly a somewhat boring answer to the question, if anyone thinks they have a better version of what adulthood is, I'm interested in hearing it.
- learc83 11y ago
  What do you disagree with? You just joined me in calling them children. If society shifts such that most 18 year olds act like children, them perhaps 18 is no longer the appropriate age to consider someone an adult. I'm not arguing that this is a good or bad thing, but childhood has been lengthened before and it appears to be happening again. There's nothing magic about 18, it's a function of the culture and if the culture changes... >What does it even mean to be an adult? Most definitions of adult say something like: an adult is someone who is independent, self sufficient, and responsible for their own actions. Now obviously being an adult (in the social sense) is more of a spectrum than a binary distinction, and those attributes I listed are more goals than hard requirements.
  - striking 11y ago
    You blame an external boogeyman you call "society" for the sins of the individual parents. I do not. Just because many coddle their kin doesn't mean all of society does. Not all kids should be treated as if they were once coddled.
    - learc83 11y ago
      >You blame an external boogeyman you call "society" for the sins of the individual parents. I do not. Society is just the action of individuals in the aggregate. What determines the age at which we consider someone an adult? The answer is cultural norms. My argument is that the trend to treat 18-year-olds as children is growing to the point where more of them act like children than adults. >Just because many coddle their kin doesn't mean all of society does. Not all kids should be treated as if they were once coddled. There are 16-year-old kids who can act as capable adults, but the vast majority can't, so we consider them children. 300 years ago this wasn't the case--society changed and the length of childhood increased. If society changes like this again (and I think it is) the length of childhood will again increase, regardless of whether some 18-year-old kids are capable of acting like adults. Again, it's happened before. Societal shifts are made up of individual changes like parents "coddling" their children. I'm sure that 200 years ago many people considered not sending 14-year-old kids to work was "coddling".
hackuser 11y ago
I don't see older people behaving much better. They just do it in different ways over different issues. Just look at the news for endless examples of older adults behaving badly.
- learc83 11y ago
  Yes this is true. There have always been adults who behave badly. However, that doesn't have anything to do with the changing length of childhood. In cultures where a person was considered an adult at 15, there were older people behaving badly. And in cultures where a person is considered an adult at 18, there are older adults behaving badly. This is not about adults killing or stealing or just acting like asses. This is a very specific issue. 18 year olds demanding that colleges treat them like children in order to protect them from being offended.

by learc83 11y ago

striking 11y ago

As someone who recently turned 18, I disagree. From my perspective, these children are coddled to hell and back. They're expecting colleges to parent rather than to teach. That's just how they grew up, that's just how they'll try to shape the environment. They don't want to fit the environment, they want the environment to fit them. I've been a competent programmer since I was 16 and not having a degree means no one cares. What does it even mean to be an adult?

sosuke 11y ago
> What does it even mean to be an adult? I've thought of that often. The more time went by the more I found the adults around me were ultimately fallible. The older I've gotten I've questioned my capacity as well. Am I being a good adult? What qualities to I aspire to have? The people I see make it the farthest have the toughest hides. Life doesn't just throw shit at you from time to time it is a waterfall of crap. There is never a right time and waiting for it doesn't help. The adults I like the most set boundaries on life and work. They generally complain a great deal less. They have just as much to complain about, but choose not to waste time on trying to change the things they can't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer O God, give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed, The courage to change what can be changed, and the wisdom to know the one from the other I've fallen back to that recently. I've focused my energy on things that I can do to make a difference. For me, for my family and friends. I haven't figured it out. You've no doubt heard of the programmer's imposter syndrome? Well I'm starting to believe that some of the best adults feel like adult imposters. I could ramble for a while on this I guess.
- striking 11y ago
  Thank you for your post. I'm definitely going to keep the Serenity Prayer in mind, that's really powerful.
freditup 11y ago
> What does it even mean to be an adult? I think the easiest to define mark of adulthood come when you're attempting to provide for yourself (and perhaps others). For many, college is essentially four years of an all-expenses paid vacation. This is hardly a time of maturity. It's fun as anything for sure, but at this point most people are consuming from the world and contributing little back. Kids who have to work (for more than just spending money) or who have to play a large part in taking care of their siblings seem to grow up faster. This is admittedly a somewhat boring answer to the question, if anyone thinks they have a better version of what adulthood is, I'm interested in hearing it.
learc83 11y ago
What do you disagree with? You just joined me in calling them children. If society shifts such that most 18 year olds act like children, them perhaps 18 is no longer the appropriate age to consider someone an adult. I'm not arguing that this is a good or bad thing, but childhood has been lengthened before and it appears to be happening again. There's nothing magic about 18, it's a function of the culture and if the culture changes... >What does it even mean to be an adult? Most definitions of adult say something like: an adult is someone who is independent, self sufficient, and responsible for their own actions. Now obviously being an adult (in the social sense) is more of a spectrum than a binary distinction, and those attributes I listed are more goals than hard requirements.
- striking 11y ago
  You blame an external boogeyman you call "society" for the sins of the individual parents. I do not. Just because many coddle their kin doesn't mean all of society does. Not all kids should be treated as if they were once coddled.
  - learc83 11y ago
    >You blame an external boogeyman you call "society" for the sins of the individual parents. I do not. Society is just the action of individuals in the aggregate. What determines the age at which we consider someone an adult? The answer is cultural norms. My argument is that the trend to treat 18-year-olds as children is growing to the point where more of them act like children than adults. >Just because many coddle their kin doesn't mean all of society does. Not all kids should be treated as if they were once coddled. There are 16-year-old kids who can act as capable adults, but the vast majority can't, so we consider them children. 300 years ago this wasn't the case--society changed and the length of childhood increased. If society changes like this again (and I think it is) the length of childhood will again increase, regardless of whether some 18-year-old kids are capable of acting like adults. Again, it's happened before. Societal shifts are made up of individual changes like parents "coddling" their children. I'm sure that 200 years ago many people considered not sending 14-year-old kids to work was "coddling".

hackuser 11y ago

I don't see older people behaving much better. They just do it in different ways over different issues. Just look at the news for endless examples of older adults behaving badly.

learc83 11y ago
Yes this is true. There have always been adults who behave badly. However, that doesn't have anything to do with the changing length of childhood. In cultures where a person was considered an adult at 15, there were older people behaving badly. And in cultures where a person is considered an adult at 18, there are older adults behaving badly. This is not about adults killing or stealing or just acting like asses. This is a very specific issue. 18 year olds demanding that colleges treat them like children in order to protect them from being offended.