4 ms·

Have you ever lived in a country with single-payer healthcare? Let me tell you it's not all roses. - Months long waits for anything requiring a specialist unle

by aianus 11y ago

Have you ever lived in a country with single-payer healthcare? Let me tell you it's not all roses. - Months long waits for anything requiring a specialist unless you're literally about to die. - Arbitrary exclusions like dental and optical. - Doctors taking in ~50% of the entire provincial budget and whining that it's not enough. And at a typical tech worker salary this all this ends up being more expensive in additional taxes than just buying the insurance outright would be in the US. If you're not poor, there's really no reason to prefer single payer.

danans 11y ago
Many (most?) private employer based healthcare plans in the US don't provide dental/optical. Those are each separate plans and premiums that you and/or your employer must pay for. Your point about doctors taking ~50% of the provincial budget seems exaggerated (please provide a reference to support it). Even if healthcare takes 50% of the budget, it's not all going to doctors, probably not even the majority of that. There are a lot of expenses other than doctors in a health system (nurses, administrators, buildings, equipment, materials, etc, etc, etc). In the US, the big "single-payer" system, Medicare, is far more cost efficient than private insurance: http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/ http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-ef... And I can think of at least one good reason to prefer single-payer if you are a not-poor tech worker: Job flexibility. Since insurance comes from the govt instead of the employer, employees don't jeopardize or destabilize their health coverage by switching employers or switching to being self employed. Edit: wording
- aianus 11y ago
  > Your point about doctors taking ~50% of the provincial budget seems exaggerated (please provide a reference to support it). It's actually 42% in my province: http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2015/04/programexpensebreakdown1.jpg?w=620&h=425 http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2015/04/programexpenseb... The average doctor makes $350k and the medical association is suing the government because they think it's too little (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-medical-association-suing-province-over-cuts-to-doctors-fees/article27030534/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-medical...).
  - addicted 11y ago
    That 42% is the Healthcare Sector's share in the entire provincial budget. It absolutely does not support your claim that doctors take in 50% (or even 42%) as it has already been pointed out that there are far more expenses in healthcare than simply doctors (e.g. drugs).
    - aianus 11y ago
      I misspoke. s/doctors/the healthcare industry/. Drugs, like optical and dental, are not covered under health insurance in Ontario.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
bags159 11y ago
yeah I live in the usa and it took me over 3 months to see a specialist, i don't see how this is some inherent flaw of single payer also people have an invisible waiting period in the form of not having the money to get things fixed so they put it off until it gets worse :^)
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
> If you're not poor, there's really no reason to prefer single payer. There's the whole "I am not poor but I have compassion for those who are and don't want them to die and suffer for lack of medical care" angle that you might want to consider.

by aianus 11y ago

danans 11y ago

Many (most?) private employer based healthcare plans in the US don't provide dental/optical. Those are each separate plans and premiums that you and/or your employer must pay for. Your point about doctors taking ~50% of the provincial budget seems exaggerated (please provide a reference to support it). Even if healthcare takes 50% of the budget, it's not all going to doctors, probably not even the majority of that. There are a lot of expenses other than doctors in a health system (nurses, administrators, buildings, equipment, materials, etc, etc, etc). In the US, the big "single-payer" system, Medicare, is far more cost efficient than private insurance: http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/ http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-ef... And I can think of at least one good reason to prefer single-payer if you are a not-poor tech worker: Job flexibility. Since insurance comes from the govt instead of the employer, employees don't jeopardize or destabilize their health coverage by switching employers or switching to being self employed. Edit: wording

aianus 11y ago
> Your point about doctors taking ~50% of the provincial budget seems exaggerated (please provide a reference to support it). It's actually 42% in my province: http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2015/04/programexpensebreakdown1.jpg?w=620&h=425 http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2015/04/programexpenseb... The average doctor makes $350k and the medical association is suing the government because they think it's too little (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-medical-association-suing-province-over-cuts-to-doctors-fees/article27030534/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-medical...).
- addicted 11y ago
  That 42% is the Healthcare Sector's share in the entire provincial budget. It absolutely does not support your claim that doctors take in 50% (or even 42%) as it has already been pointed out that there are far more expenses in healthcare than simply doctors (e.g. drugs).
  - aianus 11y ago
    I misspoke. s/doctors/the healthcare industry/. Drugs, like optical and dental, are not covered under health insurance in Ontario.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

bags159 11y ago

yeah I live in the usa and it took me over 3 months to see a specialist, i don't see how this is some inherent flaw of single payer also people have an invisible waiting period in the form of not having the money to get things fixed so they put it off until it gets worse :^)

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago

> If you're not poor, there's really no reason to prefer single payer. There's the whole "I am not poor but I have compassion for those who are and don't want them to die and suffer for lack of medical care" angle that you might want to consider.