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Said it a million times and I'll say it a million more: you don't learn how to work by sitting in class, you learn to work by going to work. College is expensiv

Said it a million times and I'll say it a million more: you don't learn how to work by sitting in class, you learn to work by going to work. College is expensive and it isn't right for everyone. We need publicly funded apprenticeships starting at 16 so anyone can get a job and real training at a reduced cost to the employer. I'm not a big fan of Reagan but when he was right, he was right: "The best social program is a good job."

nooron 11y ago
How would you feel about University/work cooperative programs? I see that as a plausible way to balance the trade offs of each system. Northeastern and Kettering have had a lot of success with both.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  I went to RIT. A year of co-op is required for most majors. I wouldn't have had my great experience at Apple or such a fantastic job now if it weren't for that degree requirement. I still think college isn't for everybody. My grandfather was a combat engineer in WWII but the GI Bill college track wasn't doing it for him so he started a successful restaurant instead. That being said, co-ops are the only reasonable strategy for colleges to expect job placement upon graduation.
  - nooron 11y ago
    I think college isn't right for everyone. I also think that individuals don't realize a lot of potential benefits from it. It would be economically beneficial on an individual level for many more people to learn math up to Calc II in undergrad, and I suspect that would represent a public good. But most affordable state U's operate their low level math classes as weeders, not opportunities to educate students. So I don't think I would want to aggressively make policy to reduce college attendance without experimenting in improving their outcomes. (And I agree with your last point.)
    - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
      I think some things are taught best to the priorities of the local job market. For example, business-oriented New Yorkers would probably benefit from skimming calculus and focusing on probability and statistics. Boston, where knowledge and research is highly valued, should emphasize total understanding of the math that is taught, which takes up more of the curriculum but provides value to the community. And in Silicon Valley the schools might better serve the community by skimming most math in favor of teaching software development. While I believe in high standards, I also am skeptical about how those standards are set and measured, and what the benefit truly becomes. If we teach the entire nation to be exactly one type of citizen, consumer, and worker, then we don't really benefit or diversify our job markets, do we?
Can_Not 11y ago
My 4 year experience in college was sitting around doing nothing in a classroom where an old person read to me only half the book, watching the tech world advance without me, and watching my skills growing stale as I needed to memorize how many children Beethoven had for the final. The college experience really is not for people who already know who they are and are already equipped for an entry level job. I find too many fresh candidates popping out of college with computer science degrees who wouldn't pass what I consider a simple computer literacy test. The guy last week who actually passed it got snatched quickly with an offer from another company.

nooron 11y ago

How would you feel about University/work cooperative programs? I see that as a plausible way to balance the trade offs of each system. Northeastern and Kettering have had a lot of success with both.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
I went to RIT. A year of co-op is required for most majors. I wouldn't have had my great experience at Apple or such a fantastic job now if it weren't for that degree requirement. I still think college isn't for everybody. My grandfather was a combat engineer in WWII but the GI Bill college track wasn't doing it for him so he started a successful restaurant instead. That being said, co-ops are the only reasonable strategy for colleges to expect job placement upon graduation.
- nooron 11y ago
  I think college isn't right for everyone. I also think that individuals don't realize a lot of potential benefits from it. It would be economically beneficial on an individual level for many more people to learn math up to Calc II in undergrad, and I suspect that would represent a public good. But most affordable state U's operate their low level math classes as weeders, not opportunities to educate students. So I don't think I would want to aggressively make policy to reduce college attendance without experimenting in improving their outcomes. (And I agree with your last point.)
  - rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
    I think some things are taught best to the priorities of the local job market. For example, business-oriented New Yorkers would probably benefit from skimming calculus and focusing on probability and statistics. Boston, where knowledge and research is highly valued, should emphasize total understanding of the math that is taught, which takes up more of the curriculum but provides value to the community. And in Silicon Valley the schools might better serve the community by skimming most math in favor of teaching software development. While I believe in high standards, I also am skeptical about how those standards are set and measured, and what the benefit truly becomes. If we teach the entire nation to be exactly one type of citizen, consumer, and worker, then we don't really benefit or diversify our job markets, do we?

Can_Not 11y ago

My 4 year experience in college was sitting around doing nothing in a classroom where an old person read to me only half the book, watching the tech world advance without me, and watching my skills growing stale as I needed to memorize how many children Beethoven had for the final. The college experience really is not for people who already know who they are and are already equipped for an entry level job. I find too many fresh candidates popping out of college with computer science degrees who wouldn't pass what I consider a simple computer literacy test. The guy last week who actually passed it got snatched quickly with an offer from another company.