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Unfortunately by closing these channels it seems we have lost an opportunity for dissenting voices to reach ISIS supporters. If I was involved in the soft war a

by jsmcgd 11y ago

Unfortunately by closing these channels it seems we have lost an opportunity for dissenting voices to reach ISIS supporters. If I was involved in the soft war against ISIS I don't think I would have wanted this to happen. The more they are driven underground the less influence moderate positions will have. Edit: to be clear, I'm not expecting any miracles, that everyone could be talked off the ledge but some fraction definitely could. Perforating their echo chamber at least provides an opportunity to inject FUD into their discussions, undermine other's authority, play people off against each other, gives an opportunity to try and identify culprits, gives insights into what they are currently thinking, possibly targets that have been discussed, what the common recruitment strategies are etc. There are a lot of amateurs in their ranks (however dangerous) and these channels are probably a rich source of intelligence.

briandear 11y ago
These people don't care about moderate voices. It would be like convincing Lenin to embrace capitalism. If cutting the head off someone or raping children is a normal course of business, some moderate voice isn't going to make a single difference.
- scrollaway 11y ago
  You're mistaking the leaders and the brainwashed. Underestimating or dehumanizing your opponent is a sure-fire way to lose a war. These people don't get supporters by merely "waiting for the crazy to hop in". They brainwash the weak. It's far more effective to weaken or remove the framework that allows this brainwashing to happen, than to lump everybody into the crazybucket.
DasIch 11y ago
ISIS is successfully organizing and recruiting using these channels. Is there any indication at all that these channels allowed dissenting voices to reach ISIS supporters? That these voices had any impact on them at all? That if they had any impact, it was large enough to be a worthwhile tradeoff? This idea that just by talking to someone no matter their opinion or how extreme they are in pursuing it, you can convince them to be wrong, may be attractive but it's questionable at best. American politics, conspiracy theorists, antisemites, nazis there is absolutely no shortage of people with extreme opinions that are confronted with dissenting voices. You will find it challenging to find these voices having any positive impact at all though.
reasonality 11y ago
Do you really think you can persuade members of a death suicide cult to come to their senses so easily after years of brainwashing? Have you ever tried convincing an athiest that there is a god, or a christian that there isn't a god?
pfg 11y ago
As far as I know, Telegram channels are a one-way broadcasting tool. Only channel moderators can post on them. It's separate from groups, where everyone can chime in.

by jsmcgd 11y ago

briandear 11y ago

These people don't care about moderate voices. It would be like convincing Lenin to embrace capitalism. If cutting the head off someone or raping children is a normal course of business, some moderate voice isn't going to make a single difference.

scrollaway 11y ago
You're mistaking the leaders and the brainwashed. Underestimating or dehumanizing your opponent is a sure-fire way to lose a war. These people don't get supporters by merely "waiting for the crazy to hop in". They brainwash the weak. It's far more effective to weaken or remove the framework that allows this brainwashing to happen, than to lump everybody into the crazybucket.

DasIch 11y ago

ISIS is successfully organizing and recruiting using these channels. Is there any indication at all that these channels allowed dissenting voices to reach ISIS supporters? That these voices had any impact on them at all? That if they had any impact, it was large enough to be a worthwhile tradeoff? This idea that just by talking to someone no matter their opinion or how extreme they are in pursuing it, you can convince them to be wrong, may be attractive but it's questionable at best. American politics, conspiracy theorists, antisemites, nazis there is absolutely no shortage of people with extreme opinions that are confronted with dissenting voices. You will find it challenging to find these voices having any positive impact at all though.

reasonality 11y ago

Do you really think you can persuade members of a death suicide cult to come to their senses so easily after years of brainwashing? Have you ever tried convincing an athiest that there is a god, or a christian that there isn't a god?

pfg 11y ago

As far as I know, Telegram channels are a one-way broadcasting tool. Only channel moderators can post on them. It's separate from groups, where everyone can chime in.