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Benefits of Sarcasm
- jeffehobbs 11y ago"Great" article.
- DrScump 11y agoYeah. As if.
- miseg 11y agoI was very surprised.
- lakeeffect 11y ago> Other research has show that sarcasm can be easily misinterpreted, particularly when communicated electronically. I can't tell if the comments thus far are sarcastic.
- corin_ 11y agoNot directly related to the article but just to the topic: one of the biggest things for me to get used to when I moved from the UK to France earlier this year is the lack of sarcasm used/understood by French people. There's a couple of French people I know who get my sense of humour, for everyone else I have to conciously knock off what I think of as the UK part of my joking and keep it to "international-friendly humour" only.
- song 11y agoOh, I've noticed that... That's why as a French I tend to love UK comedies. We tend to use less dry sarcasm in France. So much the pity.
- danso 11y agoOne of the few lessons to stick with me from high school English was during the lesson on irony, when a student asked "Is sarcasm the same thing as irony?" and the teacher thought about it for a moment, before responding that, yes, it is, kind of, but it's the lowest form of irony. I really enjoy irony in life and in literature, so I try to avoid sarcasm as to not cheapen the fun of "higher" forms of irony (like finally understanding Alanis Morisette's "Ironic").
- jkyle 11y ago> like finally understanding Alanis Morisette's "Ironic" Would you mind explaining the deeper meaning of Morissette's song?
- RKoutnik 11y agoNot OP, but here goes: None of the examples in the song are actually ironic (i.e. taking an action with the intention of causing A which actually prevents A [or vise versa]). "Rain on your wedding day" isn't ironic, as "getting married" isn't attempting to prevent rain. However, writing a song that's supposed to be chock-full of ironic things where not a single one actually demonstrates irony IS ironic. So the song is meta-irony.
- charlieflowers 11y agoMy mind is blown. Thanks.
- jkyle 11y agoAh, situational irony. Nice. Though, I suppose it's ironic whether she intended it to be or not...maybe even more so if unintended.
- coldtea 11y ago>None of the examples in the song are actually ironic. (i.e. taking an action with the intention of causing A which actually prevents A [or vise versa]). Actually most (if not all) of the examples in the song are actually ironic. And the example given above is not the sole definition of irony (but could be an ironic situation). From the dictionary: (a) the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. (b) a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result. The "10000 spoons when you all you need is a knife" is obvious with the latter example. As for the "rain on your wedding day", it fairly obviously presupposes the expectation (of the "stereotypical" woman planning her wedding) that it would be some perfect sunny day. E.g. imagine a bride to be planning her reception, and after weeks full of summer sun, it pours like crazy in her wedding day ("a state of affairs (...) deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result") -- it's this feeling like the universe is mocking you, like you know, the weather changed on purpose. Of course a song has to tell those things elliptically, and people expect to see irony either in the form of (a -- most comments I've seen allude to that) or in a blatantly explicit (b).
- bitwize 11y agoWay to shake things up with the finding of the century there, guys.
- troubleden 11y agoProbably not a productive comment
- ScottBurson 11y agoBoy, HN really needs to hear this. Nobody likes sarcasm around here.
- riskable 11y agoHmm... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
- ScottBurson 11y ago:-)
- rtl49 11y agoInstead of avoiding sarcasm completely in the office, the research suggests sarcasm, used with care and in moderation, can be effectively used and trigger some creative sparks. Who really has the presence of mind and self control to use sarcasm with "care and moderation" when in the midst of a work-related social interaction? I think this is just a silly extrapolation to draw from the evidence presented. Sarcasm can be amusing and perhaps useful in satire and social settings where there's no risk of generating animosity between people, but in the workplace where relationships don't necessarily arise from a sense of mutual understanding, I think this article gives us little reason to believe it can do more good than harm.
- pjc50 11y agoAll professional communication demands a certain amount of care and moderation. Not just for humour but for criticism, praise, discerning preferences etc. Use of appropriate humour can greatly improve things but you have to know your audience.
- rtl49 11y agoHumor, sure. But sarcasm comes by definition at the expense of an idea or another person. Thus I submit that the article has not adequately supported the argument that sarcasm can be helpful in the workplace.
- jerf 11y ago"But sarcasm comes by definition at the expense of an idea or another person." Even to the extent that is true, which I could quibble with, the sarcasm can be at the sarcastic one's expense, as a form of self-deprecation, or it could be at the expense of a person not present and one who may not even properly-speaking exist. Sarcasm at a coworker's expense isn't wrong because it's sarcasm, it would be wrong because any social interaction at a coworker's expense is generally wrong.
- rtl49 11y ago
- Nickersf 11y agoI'm sure this concept will be well received among the soft millennial college students.
- moonchrome 11y agoThe worst thing about using sarcasm with coworkers who aren't on the same page is when they miss it and not only take it seriously but accept the statement. If you tell them/they figure out you were being sarcastic not only did they miss it in the first place they actually supported a sarcastic statement so they hate you for making them look stupid. If you don't tell them they find out it's wrong and think you're an idiot for suggesting it. It really curbed my use of sarcasm after school :(
- vlehto 11y agoI'd hate you mostly because of the lost brain power. Obvious sarcasm is OK, it's the guesswork that gets under my skin.
- moonchrome 11y agoBut that's just it - how "obvious" something is is completely subjective. I was baffled that the other person took me seriously because it seemed obviously ridiculous to me. After a while I just accepted that I can't be sarcastic with people I don't know well enough if I care about getting my point across.
- vlehto 11y agoPoint was that it's not necessarily "because you made me look stupid". If that was the case, I would believe to be utter moron by now. (Getting sarcasm is not my thing, but that doesn't keep me from using it..)
- kelukelugames 11y agoI've worked at a lot of companies where the devs are incredibly snarky. Most of the people making the jokes are straight, white, and male. I wonder if this is perceived as another barrier to minorities.
- yarper 11y agoI heard that minorities don't understand sarcasm.
- kelukelugames 11y agoI'm referring to brogrammer/jock culture. Don't be so sensitive when people criticize sarcasm. A few women have written about the way some men communicate with each other can be alienating.
- yarper 11y agoSarcasm failure
- kelukelugames 11y agoComments like this don't belong on HN. please reconsider how you disagree with people.
- 6stringmerc 11y agoTo me, sarcasm is a form of a riddle, albeit one highly dependent on the trust and relationship between the two or more parties involved. A sarcastic statement does not always have to convey a "belittling" or "malicious" overtone, but can be much closer to a maxim, a form of wordplay, a metaphor, or an allegory. Or, in the case of the following Futurama quote, sarcasm can be a container for one of the above literary devices: Professor Farnsworth: Is it true that stem cells may fight the aging process? GeneWorks receptionist: Well yes. In the same way an infant may fight Muhammad Ali. I like how the article points out that the over-arching caveat to the benefits of scarcasm involve the 'human capital' of trust. That reminds me of why my friends and I would use sarcasm with each other as games of wit, and why, on occasion, I'd cringe when one of my friends would be sarcastic, sometimes in a not-very-nice way, to a stranger who was simply trying to do their job. Or, in other words, sarcasm is a very powerful weapon in the "put down" game, and a large swath of the population isn't really mentally equipped or practiced in the contest, so it's a belitting thing...but when sarcasm ace meets sarcasm ace, holy cow it can be some funny material.
- AndrewKemendo 11y agobut when sarcasm ace meets sarcasm ace, holy cow it can be some funny material. Also known as British Humor. Maybe we should call this a Monty Python scenario.
- brianclements 11y agoThis is anecdotal, sure, but I think worth noting. Of my youngest students that I teach, starting around 4 or 5, I've consistently noticed that the most developmentally advanced students in terms of language, patience, and focus are the ones that have very sarcastic and witty conversations with their parents and/or me. They are also always very pleasant to work with (sense of humor!). There are times where I am surprised the student even understands that what's being said isn't literal, but they do get it and will joke back. I'm convinced this type of rhetoric forces an additional cognitive load on the child's brain that helps with context, perspective, and self-awareness which in my mind, are the absolute most powerful aspects of becoming an intelligent individual. This is sort of the basis of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy as well and is the most important "gateway" concept when teaching anyone anything.
- takee 11y agoI feel that when one's conveying sarcasm in electronic forms, a wink emoji goes a long way in making it clear. However the sarcasm purists might disagree.