3 ms·

Interesting. I worked with VMS back in the v.late 1980's - it was quite lovely, but that feeling was based on experiences with C64, CP/M and MS-DOS. Somewhere

by Jedd 11y ago

Interesting. I worked with VMS back in the v.late 1980's - it was quite lovely, but that feeling was based on experiences with C64, CP/M and MS-DOS. Somewhere in the back room I still have two Multias, which you mention, and were famous for running Microsoft NT (albeit briefly). Are you confident of the NT back-story? My understanding (and I ack that much of this is heresay thwarted by time) was that MS had long since planned their IBM-non-friendly exit from the OS/2 co-venture (certainly pre-dating Dave Cutler's hiring). The timing doesn't seem to match up - though I concede my memory is a bit fuzzy, plus things moved at a different pace back then.

ghaff 11y ago
Yeah, I'm not sure how big a role Cutler leaving played. DEC (and the other minicomputer makers) generally missed the shift from vertical integration to horizontal integration but what exactly that should have meant for the strategy of a company like DEC is a complicated question. With 20-20 hindsight, there are a number of paths they could have followed although many seem counter to the DNA of a company like DEC such as becoming a Dell. As an interim step, they could probably have invested more in Unix early-on. Ken Olsen's "Unix is snake oil" quote seems to be as lacking in context as his quote about computers in the home. [1] [1] http://sinix.org/blog/?p=16 http://sinix.org/blog/?p=16
- scholia 11y ago
  > DEC (and the other minicomputer makers) generally missed the shift from vertical integration to horizontal integration Great comment, and absolutely right. I seem to recall that Andy Grove wrote a whole book about that ;-) With hindsight, I should have recast my NIH statement, because those developments may have been a function of the desire to own as much as possible of the vertical stack.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    I forget which book by Grove it was but I remember reading it when I was doing some strategy research for a client once. You may be right that DEC's NIH was something of an outcome of vertical integration. It was widespread in that sector and just generally there wasn't anything like the sort of coopetition that would come later. I still remember at Data General getting an absolutely flaming email from a sales rep because we had OEMd a LAN board from DEC for a system after we had switched to some sort of industry standard bus. The email was to the effect that "We're fighting with these guys every day and you guys in corporate turn around and stab us in the back by buying their products."
    - scholia 11y ago
      Just looked at my copy ;-) Only The Paranoid Survive by Andrew Grove (Author) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/dp/1861975139 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/d...
scholia 11y ago
Thanks for the comments. I am absolutely certain of the NT back-story. However, you can read the whole story from another source, Show-Stopper, a book by G Pascal Zachary from the Wall Street Journal (1). When Cutler was hired in 1988, both OS/2 and Windows were failing in the marketplace. The problems arose after Windows 3 sales started to take off in 1990. Microsoft tried to get IBM to accept "OS/2 NT" as a replacement for the 16-bit OS/2, which was dead in the water. It refused, IBM and Microsoft divorced, and NT got rejigged for Windows compatibility instead of OS/2 compatibility. (1) http://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Microsoft/dp/0029356717 http://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Micr... Remember that Microsoft got its power from IBM: it would have been nowhere if IBM hadn't used its DOS and Basic in the IBM PC. IBM then resented Microsoft for "stealing" a small part of IBM's rightful monopoly. Microsoft would go to any lengths to hang on to the IBM connection, which Ballmer called "riding the bear". The in-house Microsoft strategy for IBM meetings was BOGU (for Bend Over, Grease Up). Hence OS/2. You may recall that, at once time, Microsoft saw Unix as the potential replacement for DOS. It did Xenix, which was the most popular Unix of its day. However, way back then, IBM had an implacable hatred for Unix and for AT&T, and owning OS/2 EE (not available from Microsoft) was the cornerstone of its plan to bring the PC industry under IBM's control (OS/2 EE, PS/2, MCA, SAA etc).
- rasz_pl 11y ago
  After divorcing Microsoft, IBM tried the same thing with Apple in project Taligent.

by Jedd 11y ago

ghaff 11y ago

Yeah, I'm not sure how big a role Cutler leaving played. DEC (and the other minicomputer makers) generally missed the shift from vertical integration to horizontal integration but what exactly that should have meant for the strategy of a company like DEC is a complicated question. With 20-20 hindsight, there are a number of paths they could have followed although many seem counter to the DNA of a company like DEC such as becoming a Dell. As an interim step, they could probably have invested more in Unix early-on. Ken Olsen's "Unix is snake oil" quote seems to be as lacking in context as his quote about computers in the home. [1] [1] http://sinix.org/blog/?p=16 http://sinix.org/blog/?p=16

scholia 11y ago
> DEC (and the other minicomputer makers) generally missed the shift from vertical integration to horizontal integration Great comment, and absolutely right. I seem to recall that Andy Grove wrote a whole book about that ;-) With hindsight, I should have recast my NIH statement, because those developments may have been a function of the desire to own as much as possible of the vertical stack.
- ghaff 11y ago
  I forget which book by Grove it was but I remember reading it when I was doing some strategy research for a client once. You may be right that DEC's NIH was something of an outcome of vertical integration. It was widespread in that sector and just generally there wasn't anything like the sort of coopetition that would come later. I still remember at Data General getting an absolutely flaming email from a sales rep because we had OEMd a LAN board from DEC for a system after we had switched to some sort of industry standard bus. The email was to the effect that "We're fighting with these guys every day and you guys in corporate turn around and stab us in the back by buying their products."
  - scholia 11y ago
    Just looked at my copy ;-) Only The Paranoid Survive by Andrew Grove (Author) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/dp/1861975139 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Andrew-Grove/d...

scholia 11y ago

Thanks for the comments. I am absolutely certain of the NT back-story. However, you can read the whole story from another source, Show-Stopper, a book by G Pascal Zachary from the Wall Street Journal (1). When Cutler was hired in 1988, both OS/2 and Windows were failing in the marketplace. The problems arose after Windows 3 sales started to take off in 1990. Microsoft tried to get IBM to accept "OS/2 NT" as a replacement for the 16-bit OS/2, which was dead in the water. It refused, IBM and Microsoft divorced, and NT got rejigged for Windows compatibility instead of OS/2 compatibility. (1) http://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Microsoft/dp/0029356717 http://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Micr... Remember that Microsoft got its power from IBM: it would have been nowhere if IBM hadn't used its DOS and Basic in the IBM PC. IBM then resented Microsoft for "stealing" a small part of IBM's rightful monopoly. Microsoft would go to any lengths to hang on to the IBM connection, which Ballmer called "riding the bear". The in-house Microsoft strategy for IBM meetings was BOGU (for Bend Over, Grease Up). Hence OS/2. You may recall that, at once time, Microsoft saw Unix as the potential replacement for DOS. It did Xenix, which was the most popular Unix of its day. However, way back then, IBM had an implacable hatred for Unix and for AT&T, and owning OS/2 EE (not available from Microsoft) was the cornerstone of its plan to bring the PC industry under IBM's control (OS/2 EE, PS/2, MCA, SAA etc).

rasz_pl 11y ago
After divorcing Microsoft, IBM tried the same thing with Apple in project Taligent.