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>I think you're under the assumption that currency conversions are traceable. I was specifically addressing tumbling services. I'm guessing that you accept tho

>I think you're under the assumption that currency conversions are traceable. I was specifically addressing tumbling services. I'm guessing that you accept those services are easy to compromise (heck, for all we know, various governments might operate the current ones) which is why you bring up currency conversion. >For example: 20 BTC -> $4000 -> 25000 yuan -> 4 new addresses @ 5, 10, 2, & 8 BTC Let's turn this around: you have a list of transactions, you know when they took place, you know where the money ended up, and now you're tracing the line backwards, knowing that at some point, there will be a connection (or connections) to other transactions at least as big as this one; why do you think this is so hard to analyse? >The only way to trace these is to compromise the exchange servers, get bank account information, and get transactions from the banks. Very difficult to do given the international nature of these exchanges. Not really, given how little is known about some exchanges' operators.

ramblerman 11y ago
> why do you think this is so hard to analyse? Why do you insist it isn't. 1) bitcoin to cash or cash to bitcoin is pretty hard to trace unless you catch the actual handover. 2) As for the 'connections'. Anyone who knows what they are doing would spin up a wallet per transaction making connections non existant. Of course mistakes can and will be made, at which point using bitcoin can become a bigger liability than cash/banks because everything is public. But given perfect usage, it is extremely difficult to ascertain any information.
celticninja 11y ago
huge list of assumptions there, but having read your responses you dont really understand bitcoin, transactions or tumblers. Tumblers can delay sending transactions by anywhere from hours to days, so matching 1 input with 1 output would be dificult at the very least. If 1 input is split into 6 outputs of varying sizes, sent at various times how would a beefy server help you. Say I send in 10BTC to a tumbler and my output is split into 6 outputs of between 1 and 2 btc each, these are issued to different addresses over a 5 day period. How do you trace that in amongst all of the other several thousand transactions that occurred in that 5 day period? I would genuinely be interested in how you think this would work, as would many in law enforcement and the bitcoin ecosystem.
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ramblerman 11y ago

> why do you think this is so hard to analyse? Why do you insist it isn't. 1) bitcoin to cash or cash to bitcoin is pretty hard to trace unless you catch the actual handover. 2) As for the 'connections'. Anyone who knows what they are doing would spin up a wallet per transaction making connections non existant. Of course mistakes can and will be made, at which point using bitcoin can become a bigger liability than cash/banks because everything is public. But given perfect usage, it is extremely difficult to ascertain any information.

celticninja 11y ago

huge list of assumptions there, but having read your responses you dont really understand bitcoin, transactions or tumblers. Tumblers can delay sending transactions by anywhere from hours to days, so matching 1 input with 1 output would be dificult at the very least. If 1 input is split into 6 outputs of varying sizes, sent at various times how would a beefy server help you. Say I send in 10BTC to a tumbler and my output is split into 6 outputs of between 1 and 2 btc each, these are issued to different addresses over a 5 day period. How do you trace that in amongst all of the other several thousand transactions that occurred in that 5 day period? I would genuinely be interested in how you think this would work, as would many in law enforcement and the bitcoin ecosystem.

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