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I don’t quite see the issue here. Elsevier’s terms of service for subscriptions very likely explicitly ban bulk downloading. As such, they have every right to e

I don’t quite see the issue here. Elsevier’s terms of service for subscriptions very likely explicitly ban bulk downloading. As such, they have every right to expect subscribers not to bulk download and further every right to ban specific subscribers (i.e. university libraries) if they violate those ToS. Nothing new, nothing exciting. If you want to be able to freely access and bulk download the papers published by your peers, maybe you should make sure that those peers publish in journals that allow such downloads. Maybe you yourself should also only publish in journals that allow these downloads. Possibly, you could even run your own preprint server where everyone can submit their texts and which then can be made available in bulk to interested parties. Breaking contracts you (or a person acting on your behalf) agreed to doesn’t help at all in the long run – boycotting those who only offer contracts you don’t like until they either change or go away is a much more viable, ethically acceptable and generally more enjoyable alternative. And hey, if your method to detect fraud is successful, market pressure alone might be enough: after all, who wants to submit to a shady journal which doesn’t have its articles automatically checked for large-scale fraud regularly? Surely, only fraudsters…

jacquesm 11y ago
They say that for bulk downloading one should use the API because they want to be able to serve the 'normal' customers too. I perceive this as Elsevier having a bandwidth problem, I'd be more than happy to host a bunch of torrents with their papers to help them solve this problem.
- claudius 11y ago
  It doesn’t really matter what excuse they bring forward, contracts are contracts and terms of service are terms of service. Boycott them or stick by their rules, but don’t make your own. If you release something under the GPL and some shop decides that they’d rather it be under the MIT license, you’d also be annoyed at them for both using your work and not sticking by your rules.
  - versteegen 11y ago
    The recent UK law providing an exception to copyright for text and data mining gives Elsevier the right to require that access is only through the API provided they do make them accessible without "unreasonable" restrictions. I think that's perfectly fair, and they don't need an "excuse". See: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/how-does-elseviers-text-mining-policy-work-with-new-uk-tdm-law https://www.elsevier.com/connect/how-does-elseviers-text-min...
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      > The UK law adds weight to our position; we are ensuring that those with "lawful access" (in UK legislation speak) have the right to mine our works. Emphasis mine, I wonder if that was a slip or intentional.
yourepowerless 11y ago
Why comply with unjust illegitimate laws created to serve a monopoly? Why comply with a framework designed not for your benefit or societies benefit but for the purpose of maintaining a monopoly on others peoples labor, socializing cost and individualizing profit. Laws are not created for the people and by the people, they are made by corrupted individuals for those with the most wealth and power, complying with them is no better than complying with any other sort of violent oppression.
- jjoonathan 11y ago
  Claudius seems to think he can have his cake and eat it too. > boycotting ... is a much more viable, ethically acceptable and generally more enjoyable As long as he suffers this delusion, there will be no reasoning with him.
- claudius 11y ago
  > unjust illegitimate laws created to serve a monopoly It’s not unjust illegitimate laws, it’s a largely valid contract you entered into and by which you are very naturally bound. There’s nothing morally wrong about “don’t use this access we give you to download everything”. If your laws are, for whatever reason, unjust and illegitimate, then fix that instead of fighting against those laws by downloading papers from Elseviere o.O > Why comply with a framework designed not for your benefit or societies benefit but for the purpose of maintaining a monopoly on others peoples labor, socializing cost and individualizing profit. I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying the profit from scientific work lies solely or even largely in bulk access to the papers produced by that work?! > Laws are not created for the people and by the people, they are made by corrupted individuals for those with the most wealth and power If that is the case, then this is squarely the fault of “the people” to allow that to happen. > complying with them is no better than complying with any other sort of violent oppression This is not about complying with laws but complying with a not morally outrageously wrong contract between two private entities. You are trolling, right?
Blahah 11y ago
In the UK we have a copyright exception for text and data mining for non-commercial research, and contracts that try to restrict that activity are unenforceable. Elsevier's terms of service are irrelevant except where they protect the security of their network. Most of the things they require in their terms of service are more restrictive than the law would allow if they tried to enforce the contract.

jacquesm 11y ago

They say that for bulk downloading one should use the API because they want to be able to serve the 'normal' customers too. I perceive this as Elsevier having a bandwidth problem, I'd be more than happy to host a bunch of torrents with their papers to help them solve this problem.

claudius 11y ago
It doesn’t really matter what excuse they bring forward, contracts are contracts and terms of service are terms of service. Boycott them or stick by their rules, but don’t make your own. If you release something under the GPL and some shop decides that they’d rather it be under the MIT license, you’d also be annoyed at them for both using your work and not sticking by your rules.
- versteegen 11y ago
  The recent UK law providing an exception to copyright for text and data mining gives Elsevier the right to require that access is only through the API provided they do make them accessible without "unreasonable" restrictions. I think that's perfectly fair, and they don't need an "excuse". See: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/how-does-elseviers-text-mining-policy-work-with-new-uk-tdm-law https://www.elsevier.com/connect/how-does-elseviers-text-min...
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    > The UK law adds weight to our position; we are ensuring that those with "lawful access" (in UK legislation speak) have the right to mine our works. Emphasis mine, I wonder if that was a slip or intentional.

yourepowerless 11y ago

Why comply with unjust illegitimate laws created to serve a monopoly? Why comply with a framework designed not for your benefit or societies benefit but for the purpose of maintaining a monopoly on others peoples labor, socializing cost and individualizing profit. Laws are not created for the people and by the people, they are made by corrupted individuals for those with the most wealth and power, complying with them is no better than complying with any other sort of violent oppression.

jjoonathan 11y ago
Claudius seems to think he can have his cake and eat it too. > boycotting ... is a much more viable, ethically acceptable and generally more enjoyable As long as he suffers this delusion, there will be no reasoning with him.
claudius 11y ago
> unjust illegitimate laws created to serve a monopoly It’s not unjust illegitimate laws, it’s a largely valid contract you entered into and by which you are very naturally bound. There’s nothing morally wrong about “don’t use this access we give you to download everything”. If your laws are, for whatever reason, unjust and illegitimate, then fix that instead of fighting against those laws by downloading papers from Elseviere o.O > Why comply with a framework designed not for your benefit or societies benefit but for the purpose of maintaining a monopoly on others peoples labor, socializing cost and individualizing profit. I don’t get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying the profit from scientific work lies solely or even largely in bulk access to the papers produced by that work?! > Laws are not created for the people and by the people, they are made by corrupted individuals for those with the most wealth and power If that is the case, then this is squarely the fault of “the people” to allow that to happen. > complying with them is no better than complying with any other sort of violent oppression This is not about complying with laws but complying with a not morally outrageously wrong contract between two private entities. You are trolling, right?

Blahah 11y ago

In the UK we have a copyright exception for text and data mining for non-commercial research, and contracts that try to restrict that activity are unenforceable. Elsevier's terms of service are irrelevant except where they protect the security of their network. Most of the things they require in their terms of service are more restrictive than the law would allow if they tried to enforce the contract.