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Hi! I am currently on a student visa in the U.S. and was considering trying the H-1B route. However, since it is so tiresome and it literally can make you wast

Hi! I am currently on a student visa in the U.S. and was considering trying the H-1B route. However, since it is so tiresome and it literally can make you waste years of your life, I was thinking to not even bother. When I was doing research, most people say that the US is the best place to be at as a SE. This makes it sound like if you are doomed everywhere else. I am happy to see that you seem to be a counterexample to this. If you don't mind me asking, how "bad" is it really to be in Europe instead of US as a SE? Which country do you live in? People say pay is so much lower in Europe, but does it really affect you that much? Thanks!

dirkdk 11y ago
Europe is not that bad. Yes it is nice to earn $120k in Silicon Valley, but life is extremely expensive with $3500/m rent for a 1br apt. Get a job in my home town Amsterdam, earn $80k and spend only $1000 on an apartment. Uber moved its mobile engineering team there for a reason. In general, the entrepreneurial scene is much smaller, but if you want to concentrate on SE Europe is fine.
- chrisper 11y ago
  Is $80k on the upper level? I mean, not rich, but is it enough to live comfortably? I know in some countries you are making as an SE as much as the baker in the neighborhood bakery!
- rb2k_ 11y ago
  > nice to earn $120k in Silicon Valley > $3500/m rent for a 1br apt I think you are a bit off on both :) Salary: As a Software Engineer, chances are you can a bit more (especially including bonus + RSU). If you're "senior" you can earn quite a bit more. Also: There are tons of other small perks that add up (phone/internet reimbursement, free food, public transport pass, free electric car charging, ...) Rent: You can currently get a 2 BR, 2 BR in Mountain View for about $3500 (managed newish building 2 minutes from Castro) (Source: moved to Valley from Europe via Boston)
  - dirkdk 11y ago
    In San Francisco you need $4,225 for a 1br http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2015/06/02/san-franciscos-median-rent-hits-a-ridiculous-4225/ http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2015/06/02/san-franciscos-...
    - refurb 11y ago
      That's not true at all. Check out Craigslist. You can still find one-bedrooms for under $3K.
      - MagnumOpus 11y ago
        He talked about the median from Zillow. You are talking about the bottom decile 1-bed being hawked on Craigslist. Ask yourself, as a developer on six figures, would you want to live in the latter?
        refurb 11y ago
        The bottom decile in SF is more like <$2,000/month. Or even <$1500. $2500-$3000/month will get you a nice 1-bedroom in some of the more desirable neighborhoods. I should know, I just spent a month finding one.
NearAP 11y ago
Don't give up yet on the F1 - H1B route. The H1B issues can depend on when you graduate. 2 years before I graduated H1B visas were not in short supply. Students graduated and opted to go on OPT first before filing for H1B so they wouldn't have to pay social security tax. The year after that, H1B visa applications were so high they had to do a lottery. This lottery happened for the next 3 years. 2 years after I graduated, the no of H1B applicants dropped back to the normal level that no lottery was required (I read in the papers that lots of foreigners opted to go back home because of the H1B issues and the bad economy). H1B application pool remained at that level for a few years and then went up again last year or the year before that. So in summary, H1B applicant pool can vary from year to year so don't cross it off your list yet
- iampims 11y ago
  Given the recent economic boom/bubble we're experiencing, chances of NOT being required to participate in the lottery are pretty low. Not zero, but pretty low.
- chrisper 11y ago
  Sounds good. I guess I can just try, since I will use OPT with STEM (maybe) anyway. Thanks!
rb2k_ 11y ago
> it literally can make you waste years of your life Not sure why you would consider those years "wasted". You're working, gaining experience and making money. Since the job market is great, an H-1B isn't really something that would keep you back from negotiating your salary or anything else. Getting the green card is a bit different, but there have been some reforms over the last few years. I'd personally recommend it (having been on L-1B and H-1B).
- chrisper 11y ago
  Yes, you are right. Thanks! I was kind of depressed because of my slim chances, but with all these responses I certainly am looking differently at this situation.
  - rb2k_ 11y ago
    The H1B chances are kinda slim. I'd personally recommend finding more than 1 employer willing to sponsor. Alternatively there is always the non-profit ones that are cap exempt.
AYBABTME 11y ago
Move to Toronto, pay is better than Europe and moving to the US from there is a step away.
- chrisper 11y ago
  Yeah, that's my backup plan! Thanks man
FlyingSnake 11y ago
The people who say US is the best haven't seen the world. Europe and Canada has a fair share of brilliant SEs. The people I've worked with in Europe are not an ounce less talented than the US SEs and I feel much more productive here. Pay is lower, but honestly. I will take my social healthcare, 28 leave/year, unemployment insurance, kick-ass public transport, and well traveled multi-kulti friends over $200K in SFO living in a bubble. If you're looking for options out of USA, I would seriously recommend Canada. It has a culture similar to the US, but better visa regime and healthcare.

dirkdk 11y ago

Europe is not that bad. Yes it is nice to earn $120k in Silicon Valley, but life is extremely expensive with $3500/m rent for a 1br apt. Get a job in my home town Amsterdam, earn $80k and spend only $1000 on an apartment. Uber moved its mobile engineering team there for a reason. In general, the entrepreneurial scene is much smaller, but if you want to concentrate on SE Europe is fine.

chrisper 11y ago
Is $80k on the upper level? I mean, not rich, but is it enough to live comfortably? I know in some countries you are making as an SE as much as the baker in the neighborhood bakery!
rb2k_ 11y ago
> nice to earn $120k in Silicon Valley > $3500/m rent for a 1br apt I think you are a bit off on both :) Salary: As a Software Engineer, chances are you can a bit more (especially including bonus + RSU). If you're "senior" you can earn quite a bit more. Also: There are tons of other small perks that add up (phone/internet reimbursement, free food, public transport pass, free electric car charging, ...) Rent: You can currently get a 2 BR, 2 BR in Mountain View for about $3500 (managed newish building 2 minutes from Castro) (Source: moved to Valley from Europe via Boston)
- dirkdk 11y ago
  In San Francisco you need $4,225 for a 1br http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2015/06/02/san-franciscos-median-rent-hits-a-ridiculous-4225/ http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2015/06/02/san-franciscos-...
  - refurb 11y ago
    That's not true at all. Check out Craigslist. You can still find one-bedrooms for under $3K.
    - MagnumOpus 11y ago
      He talked about the median from Zillow. You are talking about the bottom decile 1-bed being hawked on Craigslist. Ask yourself, as a developer on six figures, would you want to live in the latter?
      - refurb 11y ago
        The bottom decile in SF is more like <$2,000/month. Or even <$1500. $2500-$3000/month will get you a nice 1-bedroom in some of the more desirable neighborhoods. I should know, I just spent a month finding one.

NearAP 11y ago

Don't give up yet on the F1 - H1B route. The H1B issues can depend on when you graduate. 2 years before I graduated H1B visas were not in short supply. Students graduated and opted to go on OPT first before filing for H1B so they wouldn't have to pay social security tax. The year after that, H1B visa applications were so high they had to do a lottery. This lottery happened for the next 3 years. 2 years after I graduated, the no of H1B applicants dropped back to the normal level that no lottery was required (I read in the papers that lots of foreigners opted to go back home because of the H1B issues and the bad economy). H1B application pool remained at that level for a few years and then went up again last year or the year before that. So in summary, H1B applicant pool can vary from year to year so don't cross it off your list yet

iampims 11y ago
Given the recent economic boom/bubble we're experiencing, chances of NOT being required to participate in the lottery are pretty low. Not zero, but pretty low.
chrisper 11y ago
Sounds good. I guess I can just try, since I will use OPT with STEM (maybe) anyway. Thanks!

rb2k_ 11y ago

> it literally can make you waste years of your life Not sure why you would consider those years "wasted". You're working, gaining experience and making money. Since the job market is great, an H-1B isn't really something that would keep you back from negotiating your salary or anything else. Getting the green card is a bit different, but there have been some reforms over the last few years. I'd personally recommend it (having been on L-1B and H-1B).

chrisper 11y ago
Yes, you are right. Thanks! I was kind of depressed because of my slim chances, but with all these responses I certainly am looking differently at this situation.
- rb2k_ 11y ago
  The H1B chances are kinda slim. I'd personally recommend finding more than 1 employer willing to sponsor. Alternatively there is always the non-profit ones that are cap exempt.

AYBABTME 11y ago

Move to Toronto, pay is better than Europe and moving to the US from there is a step away.

chrisper 11y ago
Yeah, that's my backup plan! Thanks man

FlyingSnake 11y ago

The people who say US is the best haven't seen the world. Europe and Canada has a fair share of brilliant SEs. The people I've worked with in Europe are not an ounce less talented than the US SEs and I feel much more productive here. Pay is lower, but honestly. I will take my social healthcare, 28 leave/year, unemployment insurance, kick-ass public transport, and well traveled multi-kulti friends over $200K in SFO living in a bubble. If you're looking for options out of USA, I would seriously recommend Canada. It has a culture similar to the US, but better visa regime and healthcare.