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I have such mixed feelings about this sort of diagnosis. I don't for an instant deny that she may well fit the criteria and that autism and aspergers are both v

I have such mixed feelings about this sort of diagnosis. I don't for an instant deny that she may well fit the criteria and that autism and aspergers are both very real, but I find the seemingly increasing need for people to have a label, a category, a diagnosis, a reason... disturbing. ADHD is the classic example of this. Were I school age today I would almost certainly have been given the dual badges of ADHD and aspergers - my brother, who is seven years my junior, is labelled as both. Me, I'm just eccentric. Why this bothers me is the outcome it can lead to. Having a "reason" for you being as you are leads to self-justification, to complacency at one's station in life. In his case he's medicated and in the eighth year of an undergraduate degree. I finished my masters in two years and founded a startup two years later as I am incapable of sitting still. I like being an undiagnosed creature, as I've ended up finding something that suits those traits in me, rather than suffering from them. I know this is anecdotal, and this really isn't done diatribe against mental healthcare - plenty genuinely need it - but I worry that too many engage in that funnel out of some misdirected need to conform, and end up losing part of what and who they are.

davidbanham 11y ago
If all your life you've felt weird and broken and different, wouldn't it be so wonderful to be told that you're actually just like a whole lot of other people? Better yet, there's a vast body of research on techniques you can employ to make your life easier. That sounds pretty compelling to me.
- hcarvalhoalves 11y ago
  "If all your life you've felt weird and broken and different ..." Surprise: everybody feels this way.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    And in my opinion, one of the key moments of growth is when you finally realize that it's not just you.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    Except autistic people are different in specific, objective ways as a whole from most of society that results in confusion and ostracism. Further, society usually tries to convince them that this isn't the case: they're merely normal people that are insensitive, weak, anti-social assholes. Or something like that. Validation that one's brain really is wired differently than most with specific strengths and weaknesses is useful information. Lets that person chart a more effective path forward accepting their weaknesses rather than believing a lack of effort or whatever. The ability to send a link to people in the majority category explaining it to them and from qualified people is even more valuable. Sometimes, when people around understand, they change their reactions and how they associate with that person to work with the strengths and around the weaknesses. All in all, getting a diagnosis like this must have been a relief for her which validated the coping choices she made plus led she and her husband on a discovery process that will continue improving their lives. Most people don't need it. People whose brains are hardwired in ways that puts them at the mercy of tyrannical majority do.
scott_s 11y ago
Then don't think of it as people needing a label. Think of it as helping people understand themselves. Consider that you are perhaps not justified in applying causation between your brother's diagnosis and medication to his outcome in life.
norgie 11y ago
I agree with your sentiment, but I'd point out that "eccentric" is just another label, and a much less useful one at that.
mikeash 11y ago
This sure sounds like an argument that the truth can be bad for you. Maybe having a reason can lead to complacency, but is a person like that going to be a huge success otherwise? With the right attitude, having a reason can lead to better understanding, greater drive, more success. I don't think it's about having a label. It's about understanding what's going on so you can better accommodate it. Once you have a diagnosis, you automatically have access to a vast wealth of knowledge which can help you to cope. Think of breaking your leg. Is getting it diagnosed as "broken leg" just a search for a label which will lead to complacency? Are you better off thinking your broken leg is an eccentricity which is some unique part of who you are? Of course not, you want to get it diagnosed as "broken leg" so you can bring all modern medical science to bear on it and get it fixed up so you can heal, and cope with it in the meantime. Mental disorders are not the same as a broken leg, but they aren't so different, either. I think we'd be better off if we'd stop drawing this fairly arbitrary line between "physical" and "mental" problems.
- meric 11y ago
  Is it really "truth"? Some call it mental disorder, but really, it's just another position on the bell curve and could just as well be labelled as another aspect of personality. When 11 percent of population have ADHD I can't say it's a disorder with a straight face.
  - jacalata 11y ago
    Something like 8% of men (~5% of population overall) are colorblind, do you object to calling that a disorder? If not, what's the cutoff: anything over 10%? Myopia is up to 30%, does that make it not a disorder?
    - rtl49 11y ago
      Clearly defining a psychological disorder is far more nuanced than colorblindness and myopia, and there is good reason to believe certain of them are diagnosed too frequently. We can acknowledge this without denying the existence of psychological disorders.
nickthemagicman 11y ago
Dude, stuff is way harder for most people with Aspergers than it was for you. You might be the exception not the rule. Getting diagnosed was probably a huge relief for her.
dhcar 11y ago
I agree. From what I've seen, when a person allows their problems to define them it leads to a negative spiral that maximizes the impact of those problems. Would you rather be introduced as "the madaxe_again with a learning disability" or "the madaxe_again, who just can't sit still", which would you rather think of yourself as? Its unfortunate that the solution is often prescription medication rather than an education that better suits their learning modality. However, in the author's case, its obviously helpful because it gives an explanation for why she's different after spending the majority of her life not knowing.
- lfowles 11y ago
  > Its unfortunate that the solution is often prescription medication rather than an education that better suits their learning modality. Often the best solution is both. If I struggle to pay attention, am I really going to benefit from more lessons on how to work with myself? This is especially apparent with ADHD, since stimulant meds are not a cure-all. You still need to learn to cope with periods of time when you're not medicated (pregnancy, in the morning, before going to bed, on "medication vacations", etc). I'm sure for some it could just become an excuse, but that's not taking into account the internal frustration built up from not easily being able to "keep up with society". People take the trash out before it gets too full to close the bag? Do laundry before running out of shirts? Empty the dishwasher when it finishes?
rtl49 11y ago
Like you, I am not as confident as some of the other commenters that a diagnosis is beneficial in all circumstances. The issue is not whether mental health disorders exist, but the difficulty in diagnosing them accurately and treating them effectively. Their definitions are nebulous, the symptoms are subjective, and some of them only exist within a certain social context. With a diagnosis, a person might find a treatment, or may become resigned to being a certain way. Subjective symptoms might arise as a result of belief in the diagnosis, thereby confirming it. Treatment options are often of doubtful effectiveness, and those that are shown to be effective are generally very blunt instruments. The fact is that our understanding of the human mind remains primitive, and we much approach this subject with humility.
- lfowles 11y ago
  I feel like I'm all over the place in this thread! > Treatment options are often of doubtful effectiveness, and those that are shown to be effective are generally very blunt instruments. I have to agree with this, but the alternative is often self medication. Before getting on ADHD medication, it was the norm for me to get a 2-liter of caffeinated soda merely to be able to focus on playing games or coding (for fun!) in the evening. Diagnoses have the potential to hurt as well as help, but IMO it's best that we can provide the tools for bettering yourself (also applicable to welfare spending, heh).
Uroboric 11y ago
As a counter-example, before I knew about Aspergers/high-functioning autism I was always frustrated and confused about my social difficulties. I forced myself to join social groups and do public speaking in an attempt to improve, but nothing made any difference at all. I learned about Aspergers in my early 20s and very quickly a lot of my problems made sense. I stopped worrying about the social difficulties and started focusing on building skills where the condition would not hinder me. This is actually why I initially looked into computer programming.
coliveira 11y ago
A big problem with the discussion around mental health issues is the idea that your thoughts are a part of what you are, and somehow it is OK even if these thoughts become a problem for you. It turns out that what appear for us as thoughts are just complex chemical reactions occurring in our brain. You can definitely change this chemistry using substances (for the better and for the worse). The same thing also works the other way around: uncomfortable, stressful thoughts can lead to chemical imbalances in the brain, because they're just the same thing. We need to better accept this fundamental fact of science and use it in our favor, not fight against this as if we depended on our mental moods to exist as an individual.
mickelangelo 11y ago
People that don't suffer don't need help, but those that need help can't get it if they don't get diagnosed. My diagnosis (slightly different) came at 38 years of age, and in the few years since, everything has changed. I've lost so much to my disability that it's hard to process at times. What I do know, is that before the diagnosis, before all the different kinds of treatment and support, I didn't understand what I was missing. While I like the eccentric me, I am no longer forced to only be that. I have forged a relation to my daughter in a way I didn't think was possible. I don't only exist now, I live. Everything I am is coalescing, solidifying. I'm finally me, all of me. I live in a different world now, a world I can finally understand, because I know in which ways it looks different to me. Each year now feels like several did before, my life suddenly became much longer. So while it's all nice that people discuss the finer points of whether diagnosis is a label or not, but if those arguments leads to somebody like me not getting diagnosed at all, the effect on their quality of life will be devastating. I was 38,but for the most part I was little more than a teenager, my daughter needed a father. I can be that now. But, obviously, no-one should get sent to the doctor because they don't fit into peoples preconceptions or society's most shallow norms. Most medications influencing the brain are crude and comes with very real risks, they should be handled with care.
- brookside 11y ago
  I have personally never discovered any real help beyond the label. All we have besides medicine is therapy, which I've found equally crude.
manachar 11y ago
I am mildly colorblind. Doesn't really impact much in day-to-day life, but knowing it allows me to understand that the world I see is not the same as the world most people see. I have no interest in a "cure" any more than I'd try to cure the colors of my eyes. Diagnosis can alleviate the push to conform. With greater awareness of colorblindness most designers worth anything avoid creating problem color combinations (e.g. red text on a black background). Many video games even have colorblind palate swaps for problematic area. This seems to be happening with the Autism spectrum. As more people realize that there are people who are just wired in their own unique way we are starting to see more organizations and groups learning to embrace different ways of thinking rather than requiring conformity.

davidbanham 11y ago

If all your life you've felt weird and broken and different, wouldn't it be so wonderful to be told that you're actually just like a whole lot of other people? Better yet, there's a vast body of research on techniques you can employ to make your life easier. That sounds pretty compelling to me.

hcarvalhoalves 11y ago
"If all your life you've felt weird and broken and different ..." Surprise: everybody feels this way.
- mikeash 11y ago
  And in my opinion, one of the key moments of growth is when you finally realize that it's not just you.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Except autistic people are different in specific, objective ways as a whole from most of society that results in confusion and ostracism. Further, society usually tries to convince them that this isn't the case: they're merely normal people that are insensitive, weak, anti-social assholes. Or something like that. Validation that one's brain really is wired differently than most with specific strengths and weaknesses is useful information. Lets that person chart a more effective path forward accepting their weaknesses rather than believing a lack of effort or whatever. The ability to send a link to people in the majority category explaining it to them and from qualified people is even more valuable. Sometimes, when people around understand, they change their reactions and how they associate with that person to work with the strengths and around the weaknesses. All in all, getting a diagnosis like this must have been a relief for her which validated the coping choices she made plus led she and her husband on a discovery process that will continue improving their lives. Most people don't need it. People whose brains are hardwired in ways that puts them at the mercy of tyrannical majority do.

scott_s 11y ago

Then don't think of it as people needing a label. Think of it as helping people understand themselves. Consider that you are perhaps not justified in applying causation between your brother's diagnosis and medication to his outcome in life.

norgie 11y ago

I agree with your sentiment, but I'd point out that "eccentric" is just another label, and a much less useful one at that.

mikeash 11y ago

This sure sounds like an argument that the truth can be bad for you. Maybe having a reason can lead to complacency, but is a person like that going to be a huge success otherwise? With the right attitude, having a reason can lead to better understanding, greater drive, more success. I don't think it's about having a label. It's about understanding what's going on so you can better accommodate it. Once you have a diagnosis, you automatically have access to a vast wealth of knowledge which can help you to cope. Think of breaking your leg. Is getting it diagnosed as "broken leg" just a search for a label which will lead to complacency? Are you better off thinking your broken leg is an eccentricity which is some unique part of who you are? Of course not, you want to get it diagnosed as "broken leg" so you can bring all modern medical science to bear on it and get it fixed up so you can heal, and cope with it in the meantime. Mental disorders are not the same as a broken leg, but they aren't so different, either. I think we'd be better off if we'd stop drawing this fairly arbitrary line between "physical" and "mental" problems.

meric 11y ago
Is it really "truth"? Some call it mental disorder, but really, it's just another position on the bell curve and could just as well be labelled as another aspect of personality. When 11 percent of population have ADHD I can't say it's a disorder with a straight face.
- jacalata 11y ago
  Something like 8% of men (~5% of population overall) are colorblind, do you object to calling that a disorder? If not, what's the cutoff: anything over 10%? Myopia is up to 30%, does that make it not a disorder?
  - rtl49 11y ago
    Clearly defining a psychological disorder is far more nuanced than colorblindness and myopia, and there is good reason to believe certain of them are diagnosed too frequently. We can acknowledge this without denying the existence of psychological disorders.

nickthemagicman 11y ago

Dude, stuff is way harder for most people with Aspergers than it was for you. You might be the exception not the rule. Getting diagnosed was probably a huge relief for her.

dhcar 11y ago

I agree. From what I've seen, when a person allows their problems to define them it leads to a negative spiral that maximizes the impact of those problems. Would you rather be introduced as "the madaxe_again with a learning disability" or "the madaxe_again, who just can't sit still", which would you rather think of yourself as? Its unfortunate that the solution is often prescription medication rather than an education that better suits their learning modality. However, in the author's case, its obviously helpful because it gives an explanation for why she's different after spending the majority of her life not knowing.

lfowles 11y ago
> Its unfortunate that the solution is often prescription medication rather than an education that better suits their learning modality. Often the best solution is both. If I struggle to pay attention, am I really going to benefit from more lessons on how to work with myself? This is especially apparent with ADHD, since stimulant meds are not a cure-all. You still need to learn to cope with periods of time when you're not medicated (pregnancy, in the morning, before going to bed, on "medication vacations", etc). I'm sure for some it could just become an excuse, but that's not taking into account the internal frustration built up from not easily being able to "keep up with society". People take the trash out before it gets too full to close the bag? Do laundry before running out of shirts? Empty the dishwasher when it finishes?

rtl49 11y ago

Like you, I am not as confident as some of the other commenters that a diagnosis is beneficial in all circumstances. The issue is not whether mental health disorders exist, but the difficulty in diagnosing them accurately and treating them effectively. Their definitions are nebulous, the symptoms are subjective, and some of them only exist within a certain social context. With a diagnosis, a person might find a treatment, or may become resigned to being a certain way. Subjective symptoms might arise as a result of belief in the diagnosis, thereby confirming it. Treatment options are often of doubtful effectiveness, and those that are shown to be effective are generally very blunt instruments. The fact is that our understanding of the human mind remains primitive, and we much approach this subject with humility.

lfowles 11y ago
I feel like I'm all over the place in this thread! > Treatment options are often of doubtful effectiveness, and those that are shown to be effective are generally very blunt instruments. I have to agree with this, but the alternative is often self medication. Before getting on ADHD medication, it was the norm for me to get a 2-liter of caffeinated soda merely to be able to focus on playing games or coding (for fun!) in the evening. Diagnoses have the potential to hurt as well as help, but IMO it's best that we can provide the tools for bettering yourself (also applicable to welfare spending, heh).

Uroboric 11y ago

As a counter-example, before I knew about Aspergers/high-functioning autism I was always frustrated and confused about my social difficulties. I forced myself to join social groups and do public speaking in an attempt to improve, but nothing made any difference at all. I learned about Aspergers in my early 20s and very quickly a lot of my problems made sense. I stopped worrying about the social difficulties and started focusing on building skills where the condition would not hinder me. This is actually why I initially looked into computer programming.

coliveira 11y ago

A big problem with the discussion around mental health issues is the idea that your thoughts are a part of what you are, and somehow it is OK even if these thoughts become a problem for you. It turns out that what appear for us as thoughts are just complex chemical reactions occurring in our brain. You can definitely change this chemistry using substances (for the better and for the worse). The same thing also works the other way around: uncomfortable, stressful thoughts can lead to chemical imbalances in the brain, because they're just the same thing. We need to better accept this fundamental fact of science and use it in our favor, not fight against this as if we depended on our mental moods to exist as an individual.

mickelangelo 11y ago

People that don't suffer don't need help, but those that need help can't get it if they don't get diagnosed. My diagnosis (slightly different) came at 38 years of age, and in the few years since, everything has changed. I've lost so much to my disability that it's hard to process at times. What I do know, is that before the diagnosis, before all the different kinds of treatment and support, I didn't understand what I was missing. While I like the eccentric me, I am no longer forced to only be that. I have forged a relation to my daughter in a way I didn't think was possible. I don't only exist now, I live. Everything I am is coalescing, solidifying. I'm finally me, all of me. I live in a different world now, a world I can finally understand, because I know in which ways it looks different to me. Each year now feels like several did before, my life suddenly became much longer. So while it's all nice that people discuss the finer points of whether diagnosis is a label or not, but if those arguments leads to somebody like me not getting diagnosed at all, the effect on their quality of life will be devastating. I was 38,but for the most part I was little more than a teenager, my daughter needed a father. I can be that now. But, obviously, no-one should get sent to the doctor because they don't fit into peoples preconceptions or society's most shallow norms. Most medications influencing the brain are crude and comes with very real risks, they should be handled with care.

brookside 11y ago
I have personally never discovered any real help beyond the label. All we have besides medicine is therapy, which I've found equally crude.

manachar 11y ago

I am mildly colorblind. Doesn't really impact much in day-to-day life, but knowing it allows me to understand that the world I see is not the same as the world most people see. I have no interest in a "cure" any more than I'd try to cure the colors of my eyes. Diagnosis can alleviate the push to conform. With greater awareness of colorblindness most designers worth anything avoid creating problem color combinations (e.g. red text on a black background). Many video games even have colorblind palate swaps for problematic area. This seems to be happening with the Autism spectrum. As more people realize that there are people who are just wired in their own unique way we are starting to see more organizations and groups learning to embrace different ways of thinking rather than requiring conformity.