4 ms·

Whole H1B system is essentially modern form of slavery. I've seen people becoming multi-millionaires exploiting this slavery system. Companies in India have ama

by sytelus 11y ago

Whole H1B system is essentially modern form of slavery. I've seen people becoming multi-millionaires exploiting this slavery system. Companies in India have amassed massive revenues exploiting the same. The way it works is you put advertise in newspaper for minimum expected wage for tech worker. Then you buy a genius 3rd world tech worker and sell him/her to clients for approximately twice that rate. Then you put significant chunk of income which was supposed to be all theirs in to your pocket. Even if you managed to sell only 10 tech workers you will be minting close to million dollars a year for absolutely doing nothing but the initial paper work. Companies like TCS, Wipro etc typically have 100s thousands of such workers for sell. The reason this is slavery is because your ability to negotiate your wages is extremely limited. Sure, you can transfer your H1B but companies which accommodates such transfer is few and far between because of cost and legal people they have to keep on their staff. Most startups are immediately out of question for employment, for example. Further, if your H1B is coupled with green card application then it puts further friction in changing jobs. So in effect, H1B is just glorified tech slavery. The way to fix this system would be to allow H1B workers to apply anywhere they want without effecting other processes such as green cards. This would immediately not only stop slave labor but also bring wage parity to market.

harichinnan 11y ago
Using the term slavery for describing a highly paid white collar job is doing disservice to the descendants of slaves. Let's not get too far with the terminology.
- Apocryphon 11y ago
  It's somewhat more accurate to liken it to indentured servitude.
  - refurb 11y ago
    So you're saying H1-B workers can't leave? That's not true.
    - finance-geek 11y ago
      Are you saying they can leave with the same ease that citizens can leave? That's not true.
      - balls187 11y ago
        Define leave. Easily switch jobs in the US? No. Move back to their "home" countries? Yes. H1B is/can be used as a form of leverage to limit the mobility of workers, and potential other forms of employer abuse. That is unfortunate, and it's clear the H1B system is broken.
      - refurb 11y ago
        Of course not, they aren't citizens. Are you suggesting we give immigrants the same rights as citizens as soon as they arrive?
        gizmo 11y ago
        Giving people equal rights?? The horror! All people living in the same region should obviously have the same rights. They pay taxes like everybody else so of course they should get equal representation as well.
        refurb 11y ago
        So you'd be up for non-permanent immigrants voting, running for President, taking jobs that handle classified info, etc? I'm not.
        gizmo 11y ago
        Yes of course. You can't become President unless the masses vote for you. That's democracy. As for classified info, there are background checks for that. No reason to presuppose people who grew up in a different country automatically have ulterior motives.
- sytelus 11y ago
  Sure, may be it's not as bad as slave trade of 17th century. But imagine this for a bit: You need employment to pay your bill. What if the law allows you to work for only one certain company and you have no ability to negotiate your salary or get another job or ask for promotion for most of your productive years of your life. What would you call that?
hebdo 11y ago
I've applied for H1B in the past, knowing everything one should know about it beforehand. Either my choice was idiotic, or being a slave in the US is better than being free in my home country (Poland). </irony> While I agree that H1B is a stupid system, for everybody, I also think you should be more careful with your choice of words. Saying H1B is slavery is like comparing US police brutality cases to Nazism.
steego 11y ago
I love your conclusion (Make it for H1B workers to shop for or switch jobs), but I can't agree with calling this slavery or even indentured servitude because it frankly isn't. That sort of talk makes you come off as hyperbolic and people will use it to discredit your otherwise valid conclusion. I think it's important to emphasize that rigged immigration systems like this hurt Americans and immigrants alike. There's no reason blue blooded Americans and immigrants shouldn't be united on this. Immigrants don't want to come here to be treated like a second class and we don't want to have to compete with exploited workers.
elbigbad 11y ago
So, if I understand this correctly, they're essentially casting the H1Bs as commodities? "Purchasing" them for X salary, and then "selling" them for x + y salary? If this characterization is correct, isn't this essentially what a typical staffing company does? That is, put a worker in a position at a third party company as a temp paying them x salary, then collecting from the client third party company x + y salary. With the only difference being in this case that the person placed comes from another country on an H1B.
- finance-geek 11y ago
  Yes, this is indeed what a typical staffing company does -- except citizens at staffing companies can jump ship anytime when a better opportunity comes their way. H1Bs, while not shackled, have a lot of tethers to their current employer which makes switching very difficult. Their lightly-tied handcuffs also make it very difficult to find better jobs/salaries/negotiate and result in holding wages down.
- sytelus 11y ago
  The major difference is (1) The laws are designed to eliminate choice and freedom to pursue other jobs for the people being placed. (2) "Staffer" company is able to take their 50% or more cut from their salary for entire decade or more every single month. Imagine if you were running staffer company with this business model where law says that workers can't leave the job you placed them and you get to pocket major part of their income for decade or more. Technically sure they can leave your employment but practically they can't because they still get paid bit better than their home country although much less than prevalent wages in US even after staffer takes his 50% cut.
eanzenberg 11y ago
Not sure you know what slavery is.
ap3 11y ago
I was H1B and it was no slavery - and something totally optional that we willingly sign up for. There is always the marriage fast track option :)
prodmerc 11y ago
Eh, no, it sounds more like a middleman scheme...
issaria 11y ago
Most decent explanation. This is worse than slavery.

by sytelus 11y ago

harichinnan 11y ago

Using the term slavery for describing a highly paid white collar job is doing disservice to the descendants of slaves. Let's not get too far with the terminology.

Apocryphon 11y ago
It's somewhat more accurate to liken it to indentured servitude.
- refurb 11y ago
  So you're saying H1-B workers can't leave? That's not true.
  - finance-geek 11y ago
    Are you saying they can leave with the same ease that citizens can leave? That's not true.
    - balls187 11y ago
      Define leave. Easily switch jobs in the US? No. Move back to their "home" countries? Yes. H1B is/can be used as a form of leverage to limit the mobility of workers, and potential other forms of employer abuse. That is unfortunate, and it's clear the H1B system is broken.
    - refurb 11y ago
      Of course not, they aren't citizens. Are you suggesting we give immigrants the same rights as citizens as soon as they arrive?
      - gizmo 11y ago
        Giving people equal rights?? The horror! All people living in the same region should obviously have the same rights. They pay taxes like everybody else so of course they should get equal representation as well.
        refurb 11y ago
        So you'd be up for non-permanent immigrants voting, running for President, taking jobs that handle classified info, etc? I'm not.
        gizmo 11y ago
        Yes of course. You can't become President unless the masses vote for you. That's democracy. As for classified info, there are background checks for that. No reason to presuppose people who grew up in a different country automatically have ulterior motives.
sytelus 11y ago
Sure, may be it's not as bad as slave trade of 17th century. But imagine this for a bit: You need employment to pay your bill. What if the law allows you to work for only one certain company and you have no ability to negotiate your salary or get another job or ask for promotion for most of your productive years of your life. What would you call that?

hebdo 11y ago

I've applied for H1B in the past, knowing everything one should know about it beforehand. Either my choice was idiotic, or being a slave in the US is better than being free in my home country (Poland). </irony> While I agree that H1B is a stupid system, for everybody, I also think you should be more careful with your choice of words. Saying H1B is slavery is like comparing US police brutality cases to Nazism.

steego 11y ago

I love your conclusion (Make it for H1B workers to shop for or switch jobs), but I can't agree with calling this slavery or even indentured servitude because it frankly isn't. That sort of talk makes you come off as hyperbolic and people will use it to discredit your otherwise valid conclusion. I think it's important to emphasize that rigged immigration systems like this hurt Americans and immigrants alike. There's no reason blue blooded Americans and immigrants shouldn't be united on this. Immigrants don't want to come here to be treated like a second class and we don't want to have to compete with exploited workers.

elbigbad 11y ago

So, if I understand this correctly, they're essentially casting the H1Bs as commodities? "Purchasing" them for X salary, and then "selling" them for x + y salary? If this characterization is correct, isn't this essentially what a typical staffing company does? That is, put a worker in a position at a third party company as a temp paying them x salary, then collecting from the client third party company x + y salary. With the only difference being in this case that the person placed comes from another country on an H1B.

finance-geek 11y ago
Yes, this is indeed what a typical staffing company does -- except citizens at staffing companies can jump ship anytime when a better opportunity comes their way. H1Bs, while not shackled, have a lot of tethers to their current employer which makes switching very difficult. Their lightly-tied handcuffs also make it very difficult to find better jobs/salaries/negotiate and result in holding wages down.
sytelus 11y ago
The major difference is (1) The laws are designed to eliminate choice and freedom to pursue other jobs for the people being placed. (2) "Staffer" company is able to take their 50% or more cut from their salary for entire decade or more every single month. Imagine if you were running staffer company with this business model where law says that workers can't leave the job you placed them and you get to pocket major part of their income for decade or more. Technically sure they can leave your employment but practically they can't because they still get paid bit better than their home country although much less than prevalent wages in US even after staffer takes his 50% cut.

eanzenberg 11y ago

Not sure you know what slavery is.

ap3 11y ago

I was H1B and it was no slavery - and something totally optional that we willingly sign up for. There is always the marriage fast track option :)

prodmerc 11y ago

Eh, no, it sounds more like a middleman scheme...

issaria 11y ago

Most decent explanation. This is worse than slavery.