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This Der spiegel article has IMO provided the best model to explain ISIS's actions :(http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structur

by _nedR 11y ago

This Der spiegel article has IMO provided the best model to explain ISIS's actions :(http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-file... ) I don't agree with the parent article. They are basically parroting the official stance of ISIS which has been covered (in a much better way)before : http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/anne-speckhard/isis-iraq_b_5541693.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/anne-speckhard/isis-iraq_b_5... Yes. ISIS has cultivated a doomsday cult through their propaganda machine. ISIS wants to be seen by the world as a doomsday cult, and all their propaganda is aimed at this. But ISIS's actions in the past have not matched their propaganda. For example why is an organisation that claim's to adhere to Salafist fundamentalist principles, in war with pretty much every Salafist faction in Syria?During 2013 - mid 2014, they were in a truce with Assad's government. At the time they almost exclusively attacked Rebel outfits. Many groups including the Syrian Observatory kept claiming that several major ISIS offensives on rebels, were often preceeded by airstrikes from the Syrian govt indicating coordination and cooperation. The truth is that ISIS is a purely opportunistic faction that won't allow any moral or even religious considerations from getting in the way of its ambitions.

agarden 11y ago
That was an interesting read. It did sound like ISIS has a powerful faction, at least, that is only using religion as a pretense and tool. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that all of ISIS is like that. It could be that such men as Bakr were instrumental in getting things started, but those brought in to provide religious pretense eventually became the more powerful faction. Also, I don't see how temporary alliances with a secular regime indicate lack of true religious conviction. If making temporary, strategic alliances with Assad and fighting agianst the Syrian rebels was plainly hypocritical, I would think that would staunch the flow of true believers to their ranks. And while we may debate whether or not ISIS is the haven of belief it portrays itself to be, I don't think we can question that there are many, many people on the outside that it successfully recruits because they believe it to be that. Which requires at least that the hypocrisy not be blatantly obvious.
- _nedR 11y ago
  >I don't see how temporary alliances with a secular regime indicate lack of true religious conviction. Group C that claims to be defenders of group A against group B, secretly allies itself with B against A. How does that not indicate lack of religious conviction. The general narrative of ISIS, is that they are the most strictest in adherence to medieval Islam. But to me it looks that they are the most flexible in their adherence in favour of tactical pragmatism. >"staunch the flow of true believers to their ranks." What makes you think that the majority of followers of ISIS is attracting are true believers? Looking at the profiles of the foreigners who are joining : Coulibaly who attacked the french supermarket was previously arrested on drug offences: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/09/amedy-coulibaly-paris-kosher-market_n_6444418.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/09/amedy-coulibaly-par... Abaaoud, the alleged mastermind of the current attacks, was previously jailed for theft and assault : http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/world/europe/belgium-confronts-the-jihadist-danger-within.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/world/europe/belgium-confr... According to the Sun (admittedly less reliable source; make of it what you will) Jihadi John was into drugs, and alcohol. By other accounts he was rebellious, socially isolated, and on the wayward side of society. Most of the people recruited seem to follow a pattern of rebelliousness, impulsiveness, poor decisions (frequently involving drugs, jailtime, etc.), rather than sever religiosity through years of attending madrasas. In the west people of a similar disposition might find themselves joining gangs, or in a downward spiral of hard drugs, or making other poor decisions. The ones with the most severe prognosis might end up as school shooters, or doing hard time. ISIS has set itself as a cult to attract such people and has given them a cause. Quote from former AQ member turned informant : http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700894 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700894 "There is no single process of radicalisation. Some people, it took them years to be convinced of coming to the jihad and some people it took them minutes. Some people were studying in religious seminaries - they're a minority by the way - and then decided to come and some people basically just came straight out of a night club you know while he was consuming alcohol basically to come and seek redemption there in the jihadist world. So you know you see immediately that you know there isn't one single classical journey there, that there are so many journeys." There are many scattered reports of defections by disillusioned members, but we won't probably know the real truth until after the conflict. Of course, one doesn't simply cash in their last paycheck and walk away from such an organisation, so even if there were mass defections it would be in secret because of fear for safety of them and their families.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

by _nedR 11y ago

agarden 11y ago

That was an interesting read. It did sound like ISIS has a powerful faction, at least, that is only using religion as a pretense and tool. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that all of ISIS is like that. It could be that such men as Bakr were instrumental in getting things started, but those brought in to provide religious pretense eventually became the more powerful faction. Also, I don't see how temporary alliances with a secular regime indicate lack of true religious conviction. If making temporary, strategic alliances with Assad and fighting agianst the Syrian rebels was plainly hypocritical, I would think that would staunch the flow of true believers to their ranks. And while we may debate whether or not ISIS is the haven of belief it portrays itself to be, I don't think we can question that there are many, many people on the outside that it successfully recruits because they believe it to be that. Which requires at least that the hypocrisy not be blatantly obvious.

_nedR 11y ago
>I don't see how temporary alliances with a secular regime indicate lack of true religious conviction. Group C that claims to be defenders of group A against group B, secretly allies itself with B against A. How does that not indicate lack of religious conviction. The general narrative of ISIS, is that they are the most strictest in adherence to medieval Islam. But to me it looks that they are the most flexible in their adherence in favour of tactical pragmatism. >"staunch the flow of true believers to their ranks." What makes you think that the majority of followers of ISIS is attracting are true believers? Looking at the profiles of the foreigners who are joining : Coulibaly who attacked the french supermarket was previously arrested on drug offences: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/09/amedy-coulibaly-paris-kosher-market_n_6444418.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/09/amedy-coulibaly-par... Abaaoud, the alleged mastermind of the current attacks, was previously jailed for theft and assault : http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/world/europe/belgium-confronts-the-jihadist-danger-within.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/world/europe/belgium-confr... According to the Sun (admittedly less reliable source; make of it what you will) Jihadi John was into drugs, and alcohol. By other accounts he was rebellious, socially isolated, and on the wayward side of society. Most of the people recruited seem to follow a pattern of rebelliousness, impulsiveness, poor decisions (frequently involving drugs, jailtime, etc.), rather than sever religiosity through years of attending madrasas. In the west people of a similar disposition might find themselves joining gangs, or in a downward spiral of hard drugs, or making other poor decisions. The ones with the most severe prognosis might end up as school shooters, or doing hard time. ISIS has set itself as a cult to attract such people and has given them a cause. Quote from former AQ member turned informant : http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700894 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700894 "There is no single process of radicalisation. Some people, it took them years to be convinced of coming to the jihad and some people it took them minutes. Some people were studying in religious seminaries - they're a minority by the way - and then decided to come and some people basically just came straight out of a night club you know while he was consuming alcohol basically to come and seek redemption there in the jihadist world. So you know you see immediately that you know there isn't one single classical journey there, that there are so many journeys." There are many scattered reports of defections by disillusioned members, but we won't probably know the real truth until after the conflict. Of course, one doesn't simply cash in their last paycheck and walk away from such an organisation, so even if there were mass defections it would be in secret because of fear for safety of them and their families.

deleted 11y ago

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