10 ms·

I read both. I wish the article you linked to had more substance. It provides no argument that ISIS is misinterpreting Islam, only assertions. If someone has an

by agarden 11y ago

I read both. I wish the article you linked to had more substance. It provides no argument that ISIS is misinterpreting Islam, only assertions. If someone has an article that actually makes that case, citing texts and explaining the misinterpretation, I'd like to read it.

throwaway_user 11y ago
It is hard to explain the idea of the narrative and give all the details within a couple of pages. There are detailed (and somewhat tedious) refutations from Islamic theologians such as al-Yaqubi's Refuting ISIS (http://www.amazon.com/Refuting-ISIS-Religious-Ideological-Foundations/dp/1908224126 http://www.amazon.com/Refuting-ISIS-Religious-Ideological-Fo...). Mohammad al-Yaqubi is an orthodox Sunni scholar who was the Imam of the largest Mosque in Damascus until being forced into exile by the Syrian government. There are other works by scholars from different currents within Sunni Islam. As a lay Muslim, I will give a few examples. The interpretation of correct Islamic creed and behavior according to Sunni Muslims is according to the Qur'an and Hadith as understood by the early Muslims, principally the first four caliphs and some of the closest students of the Prophet, succeeding generations, and four or five schools of law established thereafter. Within these schools, there is debate and re-interpretation. So simply citing a snippet of text to support your position, if it contradicts other texts, established practice, or informed consensus opinion is not going to fly. For example, Daesh burned a captured Jordanian pilot alive while his tribe and the Jordanian government wanted to have him released under a prisoner exchange. There are specific Hadith and verses to support that prisoners of war can be ransomed or exchanged. More pointedly, there is a well accepted Hadith that burning is specifically prohibited as a punishment for even the severest enemies. This is a well-known Hadith and is accepted by all schools of law. So Daesh not only ignored all the Islamically available options which they might have used, but did an act to further inflame specific Sunni Muslim communities that they claim to defend. Further, they did something which would offend all people ethically and goes against specific Islamic rules. While slavery in the medieval period was practiced against enemies that would do the same, there has been a consensus among Muslims and non-Muslims alike that this is a thing of the past. Muslim governemnts have signed specific international conventions banning it. Even extremely vile outfits like their predecessors like AQ had never mentioned bringing it back. They however chose to revive it against communities that were not doing this to them. Sending irregular forces under the guise of a Muslim community which is bound by a legal agreement with a country and endangering said agreement is something that is again prohibited. i.e., the Muslims living in France as citizens or foreigners are under a legal framework of citizenship or diplomatic recognition of Muslim countries wherein they are given legal protection in France in return for obeying French law and not fighting them.
kashifzaidi1 11y ago
If you'd like to read how they are misinterpreting islam, here is the longer version in the book : http://www.amazon.com/No-god-but-God-Evolution/dp/1400062136 http://www.amazon.com/No-god-but-God-Evolution/dp/1400062136 the gist is, They are interpreting things literally without any history and context of what a verse of Quran meant and revealed for, one would argue that should have been fine, but it isn't because it reduces islam to their interpretation. Arabic is a very diverse language, with tens of meanings for a word (often contradictory) and which one you pick and choose depends upon what type of a person you are, if you are a hate mongering terrorist, you would find those meanings to justify your terror like isis is doing, if you are a peace loving feminist, you would find plenty to justify that (using the same verses). This would mean that their interpretation would depend alot on their socio economic status, the kind of society they live in, the world view they have etc. People often judge islam by the norms of 6th century arabia, Islam has a evolutionary process in place called ijtihad, which the intolerant people don't seem to use. But if you would have to judge islam, you would have to either assume yourself to be in 6th century to see why they were relevant at that time, or to remove them so to understand the general direction islam gives.
- dpark 11y ago
  > If you'd like to read how they are misinterpreting islam ... They are interpreting things literally That is an odd definition of "misinterpreting". Biblical literalists are generally not accused of "misinterpreting" the Christian Bible. They are commonly accused of being antiquated, crazy, or dumb, but it's hard to accuse someone of "misinterpreting" something because they follow its literal meaning. It similarly seems incorrect to say ISIS is "misinterpreting Islam" by reading the Koran literally. It may not be the popular interpretation, and it may not be a pleasant interpretation, but that doesn't mean it's an incorrect interpretation. Christian groups like to accuse each other of misinterpreting the Bible. Church of Christ members say that Catholics have misinterpreted the organization of the church. Catholics say that Baptists have misinterpreted the apocalypse. Etc. These accusations in reality say very little about the validity of the accused's interpretations, and merely serve as a way for the accuser's to assert the correctness of their own interpretations. "Your interpretation of the Bible is wrong" has no more validity than "Your choice of religion is wrong" in general.
_nedR 11y ago
Here is an article that IMO better describes ISIS's actions : (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-file...)
_nedR 11y ago
Not exactly what you asked for but Here is an article that IMO better describes ISIS's actions : (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-file...)
duaneb 11y ago
They are definitely taking non-traditional interpretations along with traditional ones. I still don't see how this is at all interesting—what matters is that ISIS members buy into it.

by agarden 11y ago

throwaway_user 11y ago

It is hard to explain the idea of the narrative and give all the details within a couple of pages. There are detailed (and somewhat tedious) refutations from Islamic theologians such as al-Yaqubi's Refuting ISIS (http://www.amazon.com/Refuting-ISIS-Religious-Ideological-Foundations/dp/1908224126 http://www.amazon.com/Refuting-ISIS-Religious-Ideological-Fo...). Mohammad al-Yaqubi is an orthodox Sunni scholar who was the Imam of the largest Mosque in Damascus until being forced into exile by the Syrian government. There are other works by scholars from different currents within Sunni Islam. As a lay Muslim, I will give a few examples. The interpretation of correct Islamic creed and behavior according to Sunni Muslims is according to the Qur'an and Hadith as understood by the early Muslims, principally the first four caliphs and some of the closest students of the Prophet, succeeding generations, and four or five schools of law established thereafter. Within these schools, there is debate and re-interpretation. So simply citing a snippet of text to support your position, if it contradicts other texts, established practice, or informed consensus opinion is not going to fly. For example, Daesh burned a captured Jordanian pilot alive while his tribe and the Jordanian government wanted to have him released under a prisoner exchange. There are specific Hadith and verses to support that prisoners of war can be ransomed or exchanged. More pointedly, there is a well accepted Hadith that burning is specifically prohibited as a punishment for even the severest enemies. This is a well-known Hadith and is accepted by all schools of law. So Daesh not only ignored all the Islamically available options which they might have used, but did an act to further inflame specific Sunni Muslim communities that they claim to defend. Further, they did something which would offend all people ethically and goes against specific Islamic rules. While slavery in the medieval period was practiced against enemies that would do the same, there has been a consensus among Muslims and non-Muslims alike that this is a thing of the past. Muslim governemnts have signed specific international conventions banning it. Even extremely vile outfits like their predecessors like AQ had never mentioned bringing it back. They however chose to revive it against communities that were not doing this to them. Sending irregular forces under the guise of a Muslim community which is bound by a legal agreement with a country and endangering said agreement is something that is again prohibited. i.e., the Muslims living in France as citizens or foreigners are under a legal framework of citizenship or diplomatic recognition of Muslim countries wherein they are given legal protection in France in return for obeying French law and not fighting them.

kashifzaidi1 11y ago

If you'd like to read how they are misinterpreting islam, here is the longer version in the book : http://www.amazon.com/No-god-but-God-Evolution/dp/1400062136 http://www.amazon.com/No-god-but-God-Evolution/dp/1400062136 the gist is, They are interpreting things literally without any history and context of what a verse of Quran meant and revealed for, one would argue that should have been fine, but it isn't because it reduces islam to their interpretation. Arabic is a very diverse language, with tens of meanings for a word (often contradictory) and which one you pick and choose depends upon what type of a person you are, if you are a hate mongering terrorist, you would find those meanings to justify your terror like isis is doing, if you are a peace loving feminist, you would find plenty to justify that (using the same verses). This would mean that their interpretation would depend alot on their socio economic status, the kind of society they live in, the world view they have etc. People often judge islam by the norms of 6th century arabia, Islam has a evolutionary process in place called ijtihad, which the intolerant people don't seem to use. But if you would have to judge islam, you would have to either assume yourself to be in 6th century to see why they were relevant at that time, or to remove them so to understand the general direction islam gives.

dpark 11y ago
> If you'd like to read how they are misinterpreting islam ... They are interpreting things literally That is an odd definition of "misinterpreting". Biblical literalists are generally not accused of "misinterpreting" the Christian Bible. They are commonly accused of being antiquated, crazy, or dumb, but it's hard to accuse someone of "misinterpreting" something because they follow its literal meaning. It similarly seems incorrect to say ISIS is "misinterpreting Islam" by reading the Koran literally. It may not be the popular interpretation, and it may not be a pleasant interpretation, but that doesn't mean it's an incorrect interpretation. Christian groups like to accuse each other of misinterpreting the Bible. Church of Christ members say that Catholics have misinterpreted the organization of the church. Catholics say that Baptists have misinterpreted the apocalypse. Etc. These accusations in reality say very little about the validity of the accused's interpretations, and merely serve as a way for the accuser's to assert the correctness of their own interpretations. "Your interpretation of the Bible is wrong" has no more validity than "Your choice of religion is wrong" in general.

_nedR 11y ago

Here is an article that IMO better describes ISIS's actions : (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-file...)

_nedR 11y ago

Not exactly what you asked for but Here is an article that IMO better describes ISIS's actions : (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-file...)

duaneb 11y ago

They are definitely taking non-traditional interpretations along with traditional ones. I still don't see how this is at all interesting—what matters is that ISIS members buy into it.