6 ms·

It's because there were no documents in the first place. I think we never even landed on the moon to begin with.

by romanovcode 11y ago

ceejayoz 11y ago
And what, the Soviets and the Chinese decided to go along with it?
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  Who cares what they think? I hate that the argument for a moon conspiracy is defended by the opinion of other states. In fact, Chainman Mao had an unofficial policy of denying the moon landing out of shame. Russia isn't a trustworthy nation and the US could have have a quid-pro-quo with them, say not bringing up their 100+ deaths at Nedelin or lost cosmonauts if they didn't make hay about a faked mission. The reality is that there's a lot of physical and historical evidence here and denying it is fairly ridiculous. What I find hilarious about this is that the deniers don't deny any other mission. Why is it that we can launch all this mass with no problems and have all these wonderful missions all over the solar system, but once we pressurize a cabin in space and land it on the moon, suddenly these people are in denial. Their position would be more rational if they denied all space missions.
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    > Who cares what they think? They're one of the biggest holes in the conspiracy theory. State-level actors with much to gain by proving it to be a fake, the technology and know-how to do so, and nothing much to lose by revealing it. > Russia isn't a trustworthy nation and the US could have have a quid-pro-quo with them... In the height of the Cold War? Not bloody likely. > Their position would be more rational if they denied all space missions. Some do.
    - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
      I think there were more than a few backroom deals regarding the space program back then. Soyuz 1 for example: an NSA analyst, identified in the book as Perry Fellwock, described overhearing Komarov tell ground control officials he knew he was about to die. Fellwock described how Soviet premier Alexei Kosygin called on a video phone to tell him he was a hero. Komarov's wife was also on the call to talk about what to say to their children. Kosygin was crying. -- The US was sitting upon a very embarrassing radio communication of Soyuz 1's failure and didn't act on it. You bet your ass this was traded for something valuable. The only reason we even know about this is because a non-state actor in Berlin happened to catch this conversation and told others about it. I agree faking a moon landing is a bit much, but the argument that "Russia and the US agree" isn't really worth anything. Right now Russia and the US agree that ISIS is the biggest threat in Syria, for example, but from a casualties numbers perspective Assad is responsible for 10x to 20x the deaths. Political convenience often trumps truth.
      - ceejayoz 11y ago
        http://io9.com/5791437/what-really-happened-to-cosmonaut-vladimir-komarov-who-died-crashing-to-earth-in-1967 http://io9.com/5791437/what-really-happened-to-cosmonaut-vla... > Komarov never told ground control that "he knew he was about to die." In fact, while he was in orbit, there was a decent chance that he would get back home alive. And by the way, there was no "video phone" in 1967. And also, Kosygin had nothing to do with this space mission and never spoke to Komarov.
        drzaiusapelord 11y ago
        Your source is questionable and its the io9 editor's bias showing here. The reality is that we don't know for certain what happened, but considering we have the communication in Berlin and this book, it seems to me my side is closer to the truth than the questionable Soviet apologia io9 is pushing. The video phone is irelevant and probably a misunderstanding via a translator. Clearly the NSA and berlin listeners would have no idea what was seen/heard outside of the spectrum they were able to tap. Not too long ago people like you were denying the Nedelin catastrophe. I think there's a lot of coverups the Soviets pulled that are only coming to light in the past couple decades. Russia has a problem with openness and honesty with its space program. They pretty much ran it as a black ops, not telling other countries their launch schedules or programs. This was done as to make coverups easier. That guy died for nothing. The Soviets forced him on that thing and he knew he was a dead man.
  - clockworkelf 11y ago
    The ISS is also a big lie. They shoot spacewalks underwater here on Earth. There are many videos showing water bubbles floating around while the astronauts do these supposed "spacewalks". Also, why hasn't anyone asked NASA how they send better-than-HD images from Mars over 140 million km? There is all kinds of serious space radiation between here and Mars. What error-correction do they use? What protocol? Shouldn't we know this? And don't give me any "national security" BS excuse.

It's because there were no documents in the first place. I think we never even landed on the moon to begin with.

ceejayoz 11y ago

And what, the Soviets and the Chinese decided to go along with it?

drzaiusapelord 11y ago
Who cares what they think? I hate that the argument for a moon conspiracy is defended by the opinion of other states. In fact, Chainman Mao had an unofficial policy of denying the moon landing out of shame. Russia isn't a trustworthy nation and the US could have have a quid-pro-quo with them, say not bringing up their 100+ deaths at Nedelin or lost cosmonauts if they didn't make hay about a faked mission. The reality is that there's a lot of physical and historical evidence here and denying it is fairly ridiculous. What I find hilarious about this is that the deniers don't deny any other mission. Why is it that we can launch all this mass with no problems and have all these wonderful missions all over the solar system, but once we pressurize a cabin in space and land it on the moon, suddenly these people are in denial. Their position would be more rational if they denied all space missions.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  > Who cares what they think? They're one of the biggest holes in the conspiracy theory. State-level actors with much to gain by proving it to be a fake, the technology and know-how to do so, and nothing much to lose by revealing it. > Russia isn't a trustworthy nation and the US could have have a quid-pro-quo with them... In the height of the Cold War? Not bloody likely. > Their position would be more rational if they denied all space missions. Some do.
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    I think there were more than a few backroom deals regarding the space program back then. Soyuz 1 for example: an NSA analyst, identified in the book as Perry Fellwock, described overhearing Komarov tell ground control officials he knew he was about to die. Fellwock described how Soviet premier Alexei Kosygin called on a video phone to tell him he was a hero. Komarov's wife was also on the call to talk about what to say to their children. Kosygin was crying. -- The US was sitting upon a very embarrassing radio communication of Soyuz 1's failure and didn't act on it. You bet your ass this was traded for something valuable. The only reason we even know about this is because a non-state actor in Berlin happened to catch this conversation and told others about it. I agree faking a moon landing is a bit much, but the argument that "Russia and the US agree" isn't really worth anything. Right now Russia and the US agree that ISIS is the biggest threat in Syria, for example, but from a casualties numbers perspective Assad is responsible for 10x to 20x the deaths. Political convenience often trumps truth.
    - ceejayoz 11y ago
      http://io9.com/5791437/what-really-happened-to-cosmonaut-vladimir-komarov-who-died-crashing-to-earth-in-1967 http://io9.com/5791437/what-really-happened-to-cosmonaut-vla... > Komarov never told ground control that "he knew he was about to die." In fact, while he was in orbit, there was a decent chance that he would get back home alive. And by the way, there was no "video phone" in 1967. And also, Kosygin had nothing to do with this space mission and never spoke to Komarov.
      - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
        Your source is questionable and its the io9 editor's bias showing here. The reality is that we don't know for certain what happened, but considering we have the communication in Berlin and this book, it seems to me my side is closer to the truth than the questionable Soviet apologia io9 is pushing. The video phone is irelevant and probably a misunderstanding via a translator. Clearly the NSA and berlin listeners would have no idea what was seen/heard outside of the spectrum they were able to tap. Not too long ago people like you were denying the Nedelin catastrophe. I think there's a lot of coverups the Soviets pulled that are only coming to light in the past couple decades. Russia has a problem with openness and honesty with its space program. They pretty much ran it as a black ops, not telling other countries their launch schedules or programs. This was done as to make coverups easier. That guy died for nothing. The Soviets forced him on that thing and he knew he was a dead man.
- clockworkelf 11y ago
  The ISS is also a big lie. They shoot spacewalks underwater here on Earth. There are many videos showing water bubbles floating around while the astronauts do these supposed "spacewalks". Also, why hasn't anyone asked NASA how they send better-than-HD images from Mars over 140 million km? There is all kinds of serious space radiation between here and Mars. What error-correction do they use? What protocol? Shouldn't we know this? And don't give me any "national security" BS excuse.