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It gets lost in all the propaganda (designed to get the citizens behind a complex geopolitical effort) - Dokdo is mostly about fishing and other resource rights

by bane 11y ago

It gets lost in all the propaganda (designed to get the citizens behind a complex geopolitical effort) - Dokdo is mostly about fishing and other resource rights. The island itself is worthless, but the 200 nautical miles around it aren't. Here in the U.S. I've even seen local Korean owned businesses with posters up in the window "Dokdo is Korean territory!" and other such slogans. It may seem absolutely insignificant to Americans and people from other large countries, but to South Koreans, surrounded by large powerful neighbors, in the middle of immensely crowded territorial waters, it has a not insignificant economic rationale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

TorKlingberg 11y ago
You would think South Korea has bigger issues to deal with, what with North Korea to the north and China to the west. I think South Korea focuses so much on the Liancourt rocks precisely because there is zero risk of an actual confrontation with Japan. It has become a safe way of conspicuous national posturing.
- bane 11y ago
  To the average South Korean, North Korea is surprisingly a non-issue. Most people just don't all that fired up over it and view the efforts around it (mandatory military conscription, etc.) as a huge inconvenience and not much else. China is mostly seen as a source of cheap stuff and transient air pollution (even when the pollution is clearly caused by domestic activities). When China comes up elsewhere its for reasons of economic competition or having to do with those weird ethnic Koreans that live along the border between China and North Korea. What South Korea has as its most pressing problems are mostly economic, stagnant wage growth in an advanced economy, pending shrinking population, very limited agriculturally suitable land, an export dependent economy with economically depressed customers and so on. A few years ago the price of cabbage shot up a few hundred percent and almost caused riots. [1] Feeding the population cheap stuff is a national political priority. You are right though, that the rocks are politically convenient to saber rattle over without having to worry about Japan too much (who does have bigger valueless rocks to fight over with China -- who is solving their problems my simply manufacturing new islands where they want them). 1 - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html
yongjik 11y ago
Umm, actually, as far as I know Dokdo is not considered an "inhabited island" under international rule, so it cannot be used to draw EEZ lines. In fact it currently resides in the "middle area(?)" according to the agreements between South Korea and Japan: https://www.google.com/search?q=%EB%8F%99%ED%95%B4+eez&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=%EB%8F%99%ED%95%B4+eez&tbm=i...
- bane 11y ago
  You're talking about the 2002 Korea-Japan fisheries agreement I think, which establishes catch quotas for fishing, but my understanding is that Korea is recognized as sovereign over the islands under precedent (Palmas and Clipperton) since it has permanent habitation and infrastructure, and under UNCLOS but it hasn't been formerly decided under international arbitration since Japan refuses to arbitrate while it's dealing with other Japan-China territorial disputes.
  - yongjik 11y ago
    Well, of course Korea asserts Dokdo as part of its territory, and a small circle of water (of radius 12 nautical miles) around it as its territorial waters. (I don't think Japan recognizes it, but of course they wouldn't.) It's just that Dokdo was not used as a baseline (base point?) in drawing EEZ boundaries between Korea and Japan. So, outside the 12-mile circle, Dokdo is located inside the "middle area" which does not belong to either nation's (currently accepted) EEZ. IANAL, but I was under the impression that it was Korea who refuses international arbitration. (I mean, why would Korea agree to it? Even if the probability of the "international arbitration" deciding that Dokdo belongs to Japan is 0.01%, it is 0.01% too much.) Maybe you are talking about a different kind of arbitration.

by bane 11y ago

TorKlingberg 11y ago

You would think South Korea has bigger issues to deal with, what with North Korea to the north and China to the west. I think South Korea focuses so much on the Liancourt rocks precisely because there is zero risk of an actual confrontation with Japan. It has become a safe way of conspicuous national posturing.

bane 11y ago
To the average South Korean, North Korea is surprisingly a non-issue. Most people just don't all that fired up over it and view the efforts around it (mandatory military conscription, etc.) as a huge inconvenience and not much else. China is mostly seen as a source of cheap stuff and transient air pollution (even when the pollution is clearly caused by domestic activities). When China comes up elsewhere its for reasons of economic competition or having to do with those weird ethnic Koreans that live along the border between China and North Korea. What South Korea has as its most pressing problems are mostly economic, stagnant wage growth in an advanced economy, pending shrinking population, very limited agriculturally suitable land, an export dependent economy with economically depressed customers and so on. A few years ago the price of cabbage shot up a few hundred percent and almost caused riots. [1] Feeding the population cheap stuff is a national political priority. You are right though, that the rocks are politically convenient to saber rattle over without having to worry about Japan too much (who does have bigger valueless rocks to fight over with China -- who is solving their problems my simply manufacturing new islands where they want them). 1 - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html

yongjik 11y ago

Umm, actually, as far as I know Dokdo is not considered an "inhabited island" under international rule, so it cannot be used to draw EEZ lines. In fact it currently resides in the "middle area(?)" according to the agreements between South Korea and Japan: https://www.google.com/search?q=%EB%8F%99%ED%95%B4+eez&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=%EB%8F%99%ED%95%B4+eez&tbm=i...

bane 11y ago
You're talking about the 2002 Korea-Japan fisheries agreement I think, which establishes catch quotas for fishing, but my understanding is that Korea is recognized as sovereign over the islands under precedent (Palmas and Clipperton) since it has permanent habitation and infrastructure, and under UNCLOS but it hasn't been formerly decided under international arbitration since Japan refuses to arbitrate while it's dealing with other Japan-China territorial disputes.
- yongjik 11y ago
  Well, of course Korea asserts Dokdo as part of its territory, and a small circle of water (of radius 12 nautical miles) around it as its territorial waters. (I don't think Japan recognizes it, but of course they wouldn't.) It's just that Dokdo was not used as a baseline (base point?) in drawing EEZ boundaries between Korea and Japan. So, outside the 12-mile circle, Dokdo is located inside the "middle area" which does not belong to either nation's (currently accepted) EEZ. IANAL, but I was under the impression that it was Korea who refuses international arbitration. (I mean, why would Korea agree to it? Even if the probability of the "international arbitration" deciding that Dokdo belongs to Japan is 0.01%, it is 0.01% too much.) Maybe you are talking about a different kind of arbitration.