3 ms·

Get ready for China's domination of science

15 points by ca98am79 17y ago

tokenadult 17y ago
Point of agreement with the author: China is doing very well (in urban areas) in the primary and secondary education that leads to sound knowledge of mathematics and basic physical science such that Chinese researchers can make many important observations in physical science, mathematics, and engineering. I have a lot of Chinese-language secondary level textbooks at home, and they are very good indeed. Point of disagreement: "science" includes social science, particularly economics, and it is not at all clear that China's current political situation is congenial to further advances in precisely the "softer" sciences more connected to human behavior that are likely to be the big areas of advancement in the free world in coming years. As biology, sociology, economics, and other disciplines all harden up as they become more mathematically rigorous, China will be hobbled in advancing in those disciplines (compared to the West or to India) by scientists having to follow the party line on many issues of social policy.
- est 17y ago
  > I have a lot of Chinese-language secondary level textbooks at home, and they are very good indeed. Can you give a name or two? From my experience Chinese versions are often less well written than some American ones. And some of the best Mathematics textbook are Soviet Russia version
  - tokenadult 17y ago
    The textbooks from the Hua Loo-keng School are very good indeed. I don't have a convenient Web reference at hand, alas. I agree with you that mathematics textbooks from the Soviet Union are often excellent. I use two of those in my own supplemental math classes, Mathematics 6 by Enn R. Nurk and Aksel E. Telgmaa http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html (currently out of print, as explained on the webpage, as the second English edition is being prepared) and Algebra by Israel Gelfand and Alexander Shen. http://www.amazon.com/Algebra-Israel-M-Gelfand/dp/0817636773 http://www.amazon.com/Algebra-Israel-M-Gelfand/dp/0817636773 Both are full of interesting problems and expect learners to be smart. I particularly like Gelfand's views on mathematics education: "I would like to make one comment here. Some of my American colleagues have explained to me that American students are not really accustomed to thinking and working hard, and for this reason we must make the material as attractive as possible. Permit me to not completely agree with this opinion. From my long experience with young students all over the world, I know that they are curious and inquisitive and I believe that if they have some clear material presented in a simple form, they will prefer this to all artificial means of attracting their attention--much as one buys books for their content and not for their dazzling jacket designs that engage only for the moment. The most important thing a student can get from the study of mathematics is the attainment of a higher intellectual level." The late professor Gelfand was optimistic--based on long experience--that many learners can attain a higher intellectual level in mathematics, perhaps because of his flexibility as a teacher: "Students have no shortcomings, they have only peculiarities. The job of a teacher is to turn these peculiarities into advantages."
colinplamondon 17y ago
I just find it mindblowing that all of these ra ra China articles take for granted that an enormous growth bubble will continue indefinitely despite a huge bad debt rate and a shaky political situation.
- voxcogitatio 17y ago
  Especially considering how many (and recent!) examples there are of that kind of thinking leading to disaster in economics. I'd say those that don't learn history are doomed to repeat it, but this barely qualifies as history.
est 17y ago
> Get ready for China's spam of science FTFY
tomjen2 17y ago
Chinas has made a lot of money by producing cheap copies of western goods (a perfectly fine strategy, cheap stuff is good) but that won't help them in science: we don't need a cheap copy of the papers for yesterday. The entire culture of China is based on copying and not thinking creatively, which is great if you are the head of a peasant society make a lot of money with factories but sucks for your scientists.
tokipin 17y ago
relatedly, i like how Obama has been pressing science education and education in general http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33_nZaOUWYw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33_nZaOUWYw

15 points by ca98am79 17y ago

Point of agreement with the author: China is doing very well (in urban areas) in the primary and secondary education that leads to sound knowledge of mathematics and basic physical science such that Chinese researchers can make many important observations in physical science, mathematics, and engineering. I have a lot of Chinese-language secondary level textbooks at home, and they are very good indeed. Point of disagreement: "science" includes social science, particularly economics, and it is not at all clear that China's current political situation is congenial to further advances in precisely the "softer" sciences more connected to human behavior that are likely to be the big areas of advancement in the free world in coming years. As biology, sociology, economics, and other disciplines all harden up as they become more mathematically rigorous, China will be hobbled in advancing in those disciplines (compared to the West or to India) by scientists having to follow the party line on many issues of social policy.

est 17y ago
> I have a lot of Chinese-language secondary level textbooks at home, and they are very good indeed. Can you give a name or two? From my experience Chinese versions are often less well written than some American ones. And some of the best Mathematics textbook are Soviet Russia version
- tokenadult 17y ago
  The textbooks from the Hua Loo-keng School are very good indeed. I don't have a convenient Web reference at hand, alas. I agree with you that mathematics textbooks from the Soviet Union are often excellent. I use two of those in my own supplemental math classes, Mathematics 6 by Enn R. Nurk and Aksel E. Telgmaa http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html http://www.perpendicularpress.com/math6.html (currently out of print, as explained on the webpage, as the second English edition is being prepared) and Algebra by Israel Gelfand and Alexander Shen. http://www.amazon.com/Algebra-Israel-M-Gelfand/dp/0817636773 http://www.amazon.com/Algebra-Israel-M-Gelfand/dp/0817636773 Both are full of interesting problems and expect learners to be smart. I particularly like Gelfand's views on mathematics education: "I would like to make one comment here. Some of my American colleagues have explained to me that American students are not really accustomed to thinking and working hard, and for this reason we must make the material as attractive as possible. Permit me to not completely agree with this opinion. From my long experience with young students all over the world, I know that they are curious and inquisitive and I believe that if they have some clear material presented in a simple form, they will prefer this to all artificial means of attracting their attention--much as one buys books for their content and not for their dazzling jacket designs that engage only for the moment. The most important thing a student can get from the study of mathematics is the attainment of a higher intellectual level." The late professor Gelfand was optimistic--based on long experience--that many learners can attain a higher intellectual level in mathematics, perhaps because of his flexibility as a teacher: "Students have no shortcomings, they have only peculiarities. The job of a teacher is to turn these peculiarities into advantages."

colinplamondon 17y ago

I just find it mindblowing that all of these ra ra China articles take for granted that an enormous growth bubble will continue indefinitely despite a huge bad debt rate and a shaky political situation.

voxcogitatio 17y ago
Especially considering how many (and recent!) examples there are of that kind of thinking leading to disaster in economics. I'd say those that don't learn history are doomed to repeat it, but this barely qualifies as history.

est 17y ago

> Get ready for China's spam of science FTFY

tomjen2 17y ago

Chinas has made a lot of money by producing cheap copies of western goods (a perfectly fine strategy, cheap stuff is good) but that won't help them in science: we don't need a cheap copy of the papers for yesterday. The entire culture of China is based on copying and not thinking creatively, which is great if you are the head of a peasant society make a lot of money with factories but sucks for your scientists.

tokipin 17y ago

relatedly, i like how Obama has been pressing science education and education in general http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33_nZaOUWYw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33_nZaOUWYw