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On a visit to South Korea, I was astonished to watch a national weather report on televsion. It showed the weather in Seoul, in Busan, in a few other major citi

On a visit to South Korea, I was astonished to watch a national weather report on televsion. It showed the weather in Seoul, in Busan, in a few other major cities, and on Dokdo! (Dokdo is this tiny island mentioned in the article, disputed by Japan, with two people living on it.) In this case, the status of the island is largely a proxy for remaining Korean bitterness over WWII, towards the Japanese who (at least in the eye of many Koreans) have not yet fully owned up to their war crimes.

igsmo 11y ago
1. This reminds me of the territorial dispute right now between Canada and the US, http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-tiny-islands-where-canada-and-america-are-at-war/ http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-tiny-islands-where-ca... Let's go to war! 2. There is no dispute over Dokdo, it's Korean territory plain and simple. But if Japan really wants it, they should just take it or else just shut the fuck up about it and stop bringing it up every year.
- impendia 11y ago
  It is, in fact, disputed by Japan (which refers to the island as Takeshima): http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.html http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.ht... But it is not so actively disputed by Japan. Meanwhile, South Korea flies a large flag there, and the two permanent residents can choose between cellular telephone service providers, as more than one company has built towers there.
  - igsmo 11y ago
    Bingo! Korea puts a flag there because it's Korean territory. Koreans are living there because it's Korean territory. There's no dispute there. Like I said if Japan really thinks its theirs have the Japanese go to Dokdo and drive a geomantic spike into the island, and then build a shinto shrine on the island, and just take it. It's not the first time Japan has stolen or taken land from Korea. Just take the fucking island or just shut the fuck up about it, every single god damn year they bring this shit up.
  - yongjik 11y ago
    Well, it's not "actively" disputed in the sense Japan is not trying to take it by force, but from what I can tell Japan keeps making active noises every once in a while. I mean, from their viewpoint, Japan has to. Since South Korea has been practically controlling Dokdo pretty much since the nation was founded, if Japan remains silent they would be basically conceding that the battle is lost. IMHO, what is a little less explicable is why some South Korean politicians wants to make a huge deal out of this. I mean, we own it right now, and every day we sit on that piece of rock furthers our claim on it. There is no need to advertise that there's any border dispute going on. But of course politicians trying to score cheap point by appealing to emotional nationalism is nothing new, isn't it.
bane 11y ago
It gets lost in all the propaganda (designed to get the citizens behind a complex geopolitical effort) - Dokdo is mostly about fishing and other resource rights. The island itself is worthless, but the 200 nautical miles around it aren't. Here in the U.S. I've even seen local Korean owned businesses with posters up in the window "Dokdo is Korean territory!" and other such slogans. It may seem absolutely insignificant to Americans and people from other large countries, but to South Koreans, surrounded by large powerful neighbors, in the middle of immensely crowded territorial waters, it has a not insignificant economic rationale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone
- TorKlingberg 11y ago
  You would think South Korea has bigger issues to deal with, what with North Korea to the north and China to the west. I think South Korea focuses so much on the Liancourt rocks precisely because there is zero risk of an actual confrontation with Japan. It has become a safe way of conspicuous national posturing.
  - bane 11y ago
    To the average South Korean, North Korea is surprisingly a non-issue. Most people just don't all that fired up over it and view the efforts around it (mandatory military conscription, etc.) as a huge inconvenience and not much else. China is mostly seen as a source of cheap stuff and transient air pollution (even when the pollution is clearly caused by domestic activities). When China comes up elsewhere its for reasons of economic competition or having to do with those weird ethnic Koreans that live along the border between China and North Korea. What South Korea has as its most pressing problems are mostly economic, stagnant wage growth in an advanced economy, pending shrinking population, very limited agriculturally suitable land, an export dependent economy with economically depressed customers and so on. A few years ago the price of cabbage shot up a few hundred percent and almost caused riots. [1] Feeding the population cheap stuff is a national political priority. You are right though, that the rocks are politically convenient to saber rattle over without having to worry about Japan too much (who does have bigger valueless rocks to fight over with China -- who is solving their problems my simply manufacturing new islands where they want them). 1 - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html

igsmo 11y ago

1. This reminds me of the territorial dispute right now between Canada and the US, http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-tiny-islands-where-canada-and-america-are-at-war/ http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-tiny-islands-where-ca... Let's go to war! 2. There is no dispute over Dokdo, it's Korean territory plain and simple. But if Japan really wants it, they should just take it or else just shut the fuck up about it and stop bringing it up every year.

impendia 11y ago
It is, in fact, disputed by Japan (which refers to the island as Takeshima): http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.html http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.ht... But it is not so actively disputed by Japan. Meanwhile, South Korea flies a large flag there, and the two permanent residents can choose between cellular telephone service providers, as more than one company has built towers there.
- igsmo 11y ago
  Bingo! Korea puts a flag there because it's Korean territory. Koreans are living there because it's Korean territory. There's no dispute there. Like I said if Japan really thinks its theirs have the Japanese go to Dokdo and drive a geomantic spike into the island, and then build a shinto shrine on the island, and just take it. It's not the first time Japan has stolen or taken land from Korea. Just take the fucking island or just shut the fuck up about it, every single god damn year they bring this shit up.
- yongjik 11y ago
  Well, it's not "actively" disputed in the sense Japan is not trying to take it by force, but from what I can tell Japan keeps making active noises every once in a while. I mean, from their viewpoint, Japan has to. Since South Korea has been practically controlling Dokdo pretty much since the nation was founded, if Japan remains silent they would be basically conceding that the battle is lost. IMHO, what is a little less explicable is why some South Korean politicians wants to make a huge deal out of this. I mean, we own it right now, and every day we sit on that piece of rock furthers our claim on it. There is no need to advertise that there's any border dispute going on. But of course politicians trying to score cheap point by appealing to emotional nationalism is nothing new, isn't it.

bane 11y ago

It gets lost in all the propaganda (designed to get the citizens behind a complex geopolitical effort) - Dokdo is mostly about fishing and other resource rights. The island itself is worthless, but the 200 nautical miles around it aren't. Here in the U.S. I've even seen local Korean owned businesses with posters up in the window "Dokdo is Korean territory!" and other such slogans. It may seem absolutely insignificant to Americans and people from other large countries, but to South Koreans, surrounded by large powerful neighbors, in the middle of immensely crowded territorial waters, it has a not insignificant economic rationale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone

TorKlingberg 11y ago
You would think South Korea has bigger issues to deal with, what with North Korea to the north and China to the west. I think South Korea focuses so much on the Liancourt rocks precisely because there is zero risk of an actual confrontation with Japan. It has become a safe way of conspicuous national posturing.
- bane 11y ago
  To the average South Korean, North Korea is surprisingly a non-issue. Most people just don't all that fired up over it and view the efforts around it (mandatory military conscription, etc.) as a huge inconvenience and not much else. China is mostly seen as a source of cheap stuff and transient air pollution (even when the pollution is clearly caused by domestic activities). When China comes up elsewhere its for reasons of economic competition or having to do with those weird ethnic Koreans that live along the border between China and North Korea. What South Korea has as its most pressing problems are mostly economic, stagnant wage growth in an advanced economy, pending shrinking population, very limited agriculturally suitable land, an export dependent economy with economically depressed customers and so on. A few years ago the price of cabbage shot up a few hundred percent and almost caused riots. [1] Feeding the population cheap stuff is a national political priority. You are right though, that the rocks are politically convenient to saber rattle over without having to worry about Japan too much (who does have bigger valueless rocks to fight over with China -- who is solving their problems my simply manufacturing new islands where they want them). 1 - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/world/asia/15kimchi.html