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I think the fact that he posted this on facebook gives us reason to believe this was intended for a very general audience. Yes, his criticism is not so far from

by rtl49 11y ago

I think the fact that he posted this on facebook gives us reason to believe this was intended for a very general audience. Yes, his criticism is not so far from mere insult. But it remains true that Ferguson's argument is laughable, and perhaps the author's frustration with its absurdity has leaked into his writing. This is to say nothing about Europe's interests in preventing an influx of refugees, just that likening the West's conflict with Islamic extremists to the circumstances surrounding the fall of Rome is nonsense.

xiaoma 11y ago
What good does responding to a laughable argument with a angry laughable argument do? This fb post doesn't belong on HN.
- rtl49 11y ago
  One possible reason is that Ferguson's words lent credibility to a social movement the author considers destructive. Even if the remarks were absurd in the context of the available evidence, few people will read further than to see they were written by a Harvard professor.
  - xiaoma 11y ago
    Does lashing out against something one feels is destructive without a reasoned argument accomplish anything positive? I have my doubts that it does. It might even lend weight to the very arguments he's attacking since he's made such a weak argument. I'm not debating his position, which I respect, but his argument. If an argument is nothing more than talking about how angry one is and then attacking those who hold the opposing position, it's noise at best and a rallying cry to a mob at worst.
    - nindalf 11y ago
      The argument in the facebook post appears reasoned. He points out that * Ferguson knows very little about the 5th Century, by his own admission * Ferguson cites Edward Gibbon, who is a poor source by modern standards. Gibbon himself felt that he his conclusions were invalid. * Ferguson grossly oversimplifies his other source, because that source tries to say the exact opposite of what Ferguson concludes. I feel like you skimmed the post, found some PC-like arguments, and concluded that its weak.
      - xiaoma 11y ago
        >I feel like you skimmed the post Your feelings have lead you astray in this case. I read every word. I read Humphries' claims of his own expertise in 5th century history, his claims of Ferguson's ignorance and claims and over-simplification of the same and his outright personal attack at the end and I was not impressed with either his critique or his methods. Rather than attacking the person (or even his sources), why not address the actual fallacies in his historical analogies? What is good for a political talk show blowhard seeking ratings is not the same as what is good for a constructive discussion.
RogtamBar 11y ago
>Just that likening the West's conflict with Islamic extremists to the circumstances surrounding the fall of Rome is nonsense. Not entirely nonsense. Halfway maybe. Europe, like Rome, has been in decline for almost a century by now. Now opportunists are taking advantage. Of course, Roman Empire was not being pushed, to accept anyone. Europe is under intense pressure from the US and the global trade elites who believe in 'Open Borders', as a way to keep profits and power. far easier to practice electoral 'divide and conquer' in ethnically non-homogenous populations..

by rtl49 11y ago

xiaoma 11y ago

What good does responding to a laughable argument with a angry laughable argument do? This fb post doesn't belong on HN.

rtl49 11y ago
One possible reason is that Ferguson's words lent credibility to a social movement the author considers destructive. Even if the remarks were absurd in the context of the available evidence, few people will read further than to see they were written by a Harvard professor.
- xiaoma 11y ago
  Does lashing out against something one feels is destructive without a reasoned argument accomplish anything positive? I have my doubts that it does. It might even lend weight to the very arguments he's attacking since he's made such a weak argument. I'm not debating his position, which I respect, but his argument. If an argument is nothing more than talking about how angry one is and then attacking those who hold the opposing position, it's noise at best and a rallying cry to a mob at worst.
  - nindalf 11y ago
    The argument in the facebook post appears reasoned. He points out that * Ferguson knows very little about the 5th Century, by his own admission * Ferguson cites Edward Gibbon, who is a poor source by modern standards. Gibbon himself felt that he his conclusions were invalid. * Ferguson grossly oversimplifies his other source, because that source tries to say the exact opposite of what Ferguson concludes. I feel like you skimmed the post, found some PC-like arguments, and concluded that its weak.
    - xiaoma 11y ago
      >I feel like you skimmed the post Your feelings have lead you astray in this case. I read every word. I read Humphries' claims of his own expertise in 5th century history, his claims of Ferguson's ignorance and claims and over-simplification of the same and his outright personal attack at the end and I was not impressed with either his critique or his methods. Rather than attacking the person (or even his sources), why not address the actual fallacies in his historical analogies? What is good for a political talk show blowhard seeking ratings is not the same as what is good for a constructive discussion.

RogtamBar 11y ago

>Just that likening the West's conflict with Islamic extremists to the circumstances surrounding the fall of Rome is nonsense. Not entirely nonsense. Halfway maybe. Europe, like Rome, has been in decline for almost a century by now. Now opportunists are taking advantage. Of course, Roman Empire was not being pushed, to accept anyone. Europe is under intense pressure from the US and the global trade elites who believe in 'Open Borders', as a way to keep profits and power. far easier to practice electoral 'divide and conquer' in ethnically non-homogenous populations..