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There was an article on HN a few days ago that put the financing of ISIS into perspective. The US spends more on a typical large bridge than ISIS would earn ove

by rtl49 11y ago

There was an article on HN a few days ago that put the financing of ISIS into perspective. The US spends more on a typical large bridge than ISIS would earn over the course of several years at their peak income. Comparing this to, say, the GDP of the United States alone, or even the US military budget, it's easy for even a layman to see how silly this professor's argument is.

orionblastar 11y ago
That is because the USA is building things and ISIS is destroying things. It cost more to build things than to destroy them. ISIS has an ideology that it uses to recruit people who are willing to work for a low amount of money and do suicide bombings. Most of their weapons they stole from Iraq, and they stole oil and sold it to raise more money. Yet the USA spends more on its military and drones and still cannot stop ISIS. We are told ISIS is contained, but right after that the Paris Attacks happened. ISIS can just recruit people and give them resources and money to carry out attacks. We are not fighting a nation or religion, we are fighting an ideology. One that can recruit people over social media and operate on a low budget with low pay because everyone they recruit thinks they will have 72 virgins in paradise after they die. The USA is a nation of laws and we have a separation of church and state. We have minimum wage laws and pay people more based on their skill set and value. We pay more for our military and for building bridges because we are trying to build an economy and improve our nation's infrastructure. ISIS does none of those things so they can operate on a lower income, and since their recruits can become a suicide bomb they don't have to pay them after that. They recruit so many people that life is cheap to them and they sacrifice them as pawns. ISIS or any other terrorist group always finds a way to get an income, blackmail, stealing oil, fake Islamic charities, raiding banks for cash, forcing people to pay a tax or be killed, killing people and taking their wealth, and all sorts of things. They operate like a criminal operation and are even known to deal in drugs as well sometimes. Defeating ISIS will be very hard indeed. You have to disprove their ideology so they stop getting recruits. You have to cut off their sources of income. You have to kill of their leaders until there is nobody qualified to be a general or leader. Then in the process make sure no innocent women and children get killed or else it will be used as propaganda to recruit more people. You have to understand what we might be seeing World War 3 in the Middle East right now if things don't get any better.
- mikeash 11y ago
  The US can stop ISIS. The US does not want to, because we'd rather not kill a ton of people. If the desire were there (and I surely hope it never is) then killing them all and everyone nearby would take care of it. Thankfully, an unwillingness to do what it takes to eliminate this threat is not a big problem, because it's not a big threat. The deaths in Paris were sad, but such things pose no threat to our societies as a whole. It would be nice not to have these things happen, but there's no possibility of succumbing to conquest.
- rtl49 11y ago
  I maintain that, even if one were to grant everything you've written, the disparity in economic and military power is so significant that there would still be no comparison to be made between the fall of Rome and the current circumstances of Western civilization. The death of 150 people is a great tragedy. Its impact will be felt directly by tens of thousands, and indirectly by millions. But this is nothing in comparison to the events foreshadowing the sack of Rome, and there's little reason to believe it is a sign of things to come. I think we are simply so sensitive to these acts of violence that we have lost our bearings -- there is simply no realistic series of events by which Islamic extremists can topple Western civilization.
- Thriptic 11y ago
  > Yet the USA spends more on its military and drones and still cannot stop ISIS If your argument is that the current US strategy is not effective against ISIS, that's one thing, but otherwise please...The US could stop ISIS in a matter of minutes if it chose to employ nuclear weapons for example. It could easily stop them in a matter of weeks or months if it chose to engage in total war without regard to resulting civilian casualties in the area. The reason the US does not engage in such actions is because it has deemed them to be morally dubious and also not politically palatable domestically or internationally.

by rtl49 11y ago

orionblastar 11y ago

That is because the USA is building things and ISIS is destroying things. It cost more to build things than to destroy them. ISIS has an ideology that it uses to recruit people who are willing to work for a low amount of money and do suicide bombings. Most of their weapons they stole from Iraq, and they stole oil and sold it to raise more money. Yet the USA spends more on its military and drones and still cannot stop ISIS. We are told ISIS is contained, but right after that the Paris Attacks happened. ISIS can just recruit people and give them resources and money to carry out attacks. We are not fighting a nation or religion, we are fighting an ideology. One that can recruit people over social media and operate on a low budget with low pay because everyone they recruit thinks they will have 72 virgins in paradise after they die. The USA is a nation of laws and we have a separation of church and state. We have minimum wage laws and pay people more based on their skill set and value. We pay more for our military and for building bridges because we are trying to build an economy and improve our nation's infrastructure. ISIS does none of those things so they can operate on a lower income, and since their recruits can become a suicide bomb they don't have to pay them after that. They recruit so many people that life is cheap to them and they sacrifice them as pawns. ISIS or any other terrorist group always finds a way to get an income, blackmail, stealing oil, fake Islamic charities, raiding banks for cash, forcing people to pay a tax or be killed, killing people and taking their wealth, and all sorts of things. They operate like a criminal operation and are even known to deal in drugs as well sometimes. Defeating ISIS will be very hard indeed. You have to disprove their ideology so they stop getting recruits. You have to cut off their sources of income. You have to kill of their leaders until there is nobody qualified to be a general or leader. Then in the process make sure no innocent women and children get killed or else it will be used as propaganda to recruit more people. You have to understand what we might be seeing World War 3 in the Middle East right now if things don't get any better.

mikeash 11y ago
The US can stop ISIS. The US does not want to, because we'd rather not kill a ton of people. If the desire were there (and I surely hope it never is) then killing them all and everyone nearby would take care of it. Thankfully, an unwillingness to do what it takes to eliminate this threat is not a big problem, because it's not a big threat. The deaths in Paris were sad, but such things pose no threat to our societies as a whole. It would be nice not to have these things happen, but there's no possibility of succumbing to conquest.
rtl49 11y ago
I maintain that, even if one were to grant everything you've written, the disparity in economic and military power is so significant that there would still be no comparison to be made between the fall of Rome and the current circumstances of Western civilization. The death of 150 people is a great tragedy. Its impact will be felt directly by tens of thousands, and indirectly by millions. But this is nothing in comparison to the events foreshadowing the sack of Rome, and there's little reason to believe it is a sign of things to come. I think we are simply so sensitive to these acts of violence that we have lost our bearings -- there is simply no realistic series of events by which Islamic extremists can topple Western civilization.
Thriptic 11y ago
> Yet the USA spends more on its military and drones and still cannot stop ISIS If your argument is that the current US strategy is not effective against ISIS, that's one thing, but otherwise please...The US could stop ISIS in a matter of minutes if it chose to employ nuclear weapons for example. It could easily stop them in a matter of weeks or months if it chose to engage in total war without regard to resulting civilian casualties in the area. The reason the US does not engage in such actions is because it has deemed them to be morally dubious and also not politically palatable domestically or internationally.