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> A bit further down that road and we'll be burning books. I'm not calling for aggressively imposing a structure change upon people, I'm calling for people who

> A bit further down that road and we'll be burning books. I'm not calling for aggressively imposing a structure change upon people, I'm calling for people who call themselves moderates or progressives to formally recognize their progressiveness by explicitly altering their holy text.

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
> I'm calling for people who call themselves moderates or progressives to formally recognize their progressiveness by explicitly altering their holy text. Yeah... um... don't hold your breath. Those who believe that it is literally the words of God are not going to alter it, to "formally recognize their progressiveness" or for any other reason. Note well: There are those who are progressive and still believe that the Quran is literally the words of God.
jacquesm 11y ago
> I'm not calling for aggressively imposing a structure change upon people, Ok, than how do you propose to go about this? Telling the united Muslim population of the world they need to change their holy book is tantamount to telling the Roman Catholics to restructure their religion without the Pope. It won't happen. Putting conditions like that on the table is to redraw the lines in terms that the other party will find un-acceptable right from the get-go, and will show nothing but our ignorance about their personal relation with God. That's not going to end well if there is a reaction at all. > I'm calling for people who call themselves moderates or progressives to formally recognize their progressiveness by explicitly altering their holy text. Even moderates and progressives are not going to change that text. They will happily ignore the pieces of the text they don't personally agree with, but if you force them to re-write the text they just might switch the other way and become more literal about that interpretation because a very large chunk of their identity is under threat.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> I'm calling for people who call themselves moderates or progressives to formally recognize their progressiveness by explicitly altering their holy text. If their understanding of the meaning of their religion and its text is already moderate or progressive, why should they modify it (especially when part of their understanding is that it cannot be modified?) The Christian Bible has some things in it that support shockingly regressive interpretations, and which some Christians apply in exactly that manner. There isn't pressure on moderate or progressive Christians to change the text of the Bible in response to that. Why should it be different for Muslims?

AnimalMuppet 11y ago

> I'm calling for people who call themselves moderates or progressives to formally recognize their progressiveness by explicitly altering their holy text. Yeah... um... don't hold your breath. Those who believe that it is literally the words of God are not going to alter it, to "formally recognize their progressiveness" or for any other reason. Note well: There are those who are progressive and still believe that the Quran is literally the words of God.

jacquesm 11y ago

> I'm not calling for aggressively imposing a structure change upon people, Ok, than how do you propose to go about this? Telling the united Muslim population of the world they need to change their holy book is tantamount to telling the Roman Catholics to restructure their religion without the Pope. It won't happen. Putting conditions like that on the table is to redraw the lines in terms that the other party will find un-acceptable right from the get-go, and will show nothing but our ignorance about their personal relation with God. That's not going to end well if there is a reaction at all. > I'm calling for people who call themselves moderates or progressives to formally recognize their progressiveness by explicitly altering their holy text. Even moderates and progressives are not going to change that text. They will happily ignore the pieces of the text they don't personally agree with, but if you force them to re-write the text they just might switch the other way and become more literal about that interpretation because a very large chunk of their identity is under threat.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> I'm calling for people who call themselves moderates or progressives to formally recognize their progressiveness by explicitly altering their holy text. If their understanding of the meaning of their religion and its text is already moderate or progressive, why should they modify it (especially when part of their understanding is that it cannot be modified?) The Christian Bible has some things in it that support shockingly regressive interpretations, and which some Christians apply in exactly that manner. There isn't pressure on moderate or progressive Christians to change the text of the Bible in response to that. Why should it be different for Muslims?