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And notice that when the commenter says "open society," that really just means the type of society that he or she desires. It's phrased in such a way that it so

by baddox 11y ago

And notice that when the commenter says "open society," that really just means the type of society that he or she desires. It's phrased in such a way that it sounds like an objective uncontroversial description of a society that all "good" people desire, but alas such an objective description does not exist.

jacquesm 11y ago
Maybe it's easier to define an open society in terms of what it isn't: it isn't a society in which women are second rate citizens, it isn't a society where religion forms the backbone of the state, it isn't a society where free speech in a practical sense is forbidden, it isn't a society where politics are so rotten that the basics of democracy are no longer present. So North Korea probably doesn't qualify as an open society, but Sweden does. Russia probably doesn't but that's up for debate, that's just my view.
- baddox 11y ago
  But note that some people desire attributes of society that they consider to qualify as "open society" that many other people who also claim to want an "open society" oppose. For instance, one might beliege that an open society would not have hate speech laws or copyright laws, and that anyone who supports such laws has "beliefs incompatible with an open society."
  - wfo 11y ago
    In particular on HN there are plenty of a very extreme breed of libertarians who believe 'open society' means no regulation or taxes as well. It's a generic weasel word that means "stuff I like and not stuff I don't like".
    - zo1 11y ago
      If you mean it as a sort of "derogatory" description of what non-libertarians think of actual Libertarian beliefs, then that makes sense. However, in actuality, libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism is very clear about what its core foundations are. And you'll only find the left-libertarians that are very wishy-washy about their beliefs such that each one has their own definition of "stuff I like, and not stuff I don't like".
      - wfo 11y ago
        I didn't mean to be derogatory at all -- I just mean phrases like 'open society' are used in discussion and argument by a large variety of people with a large variety of beliefs, and it always essentially means 'an implementation of my particular belief system'. Libertarianism provided an excellent example because of how prevalent it is on HN -- so prevalent in fact that I had a real life Libertarian pop out to defend it!

by baddox 11y ago

jacquesm 11y ago

Maybe it's easier to define an open society in terms of what it isn't: it isn't a society in which women are second rate citizens, it isn't a society where religion forms the backbone of the state, it isn't a society where free speech in a practical sense is forbidden, it isn't a society where politics are so rotten that the basics of democracy are no longer present. So North Korea probably doesn't qualify as an open society, but Sweden does. Russia probably doesn't but that's up for debate, that's just my view.

baddox 11y ago
But note that some people desire attributes of society that they consider to qualify as "open society" that many other people who also claim to want an "open society" oppose. For instance, one might beliege that an open society would not have hate speech laws or copyright laws, and that anyone who supports such laws has "beliefs incompatible with an open society."
- wfo 11y ago
  In particular on HN there are plenty of a very extreme breed of libertarians who believe 'open society' means no regulation or taxes as well. It's a generic weasel word that means "stuff I like and not stuff I don't like".
  - zo1 11y ago
    If you mean it as a sort of "derogatory" description of what non-libertarians think of actual Libertarian beliefs, then that makes sense. However, in actuality, libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism is very clear about what its core foundations are. And you'll only find the left-libertarians that are very wishy-washy about their beliefs such that each one has their own definition of "stuff I like, and not stuff I don't like".
    - wfo 11y ago
      I didn't mean to be derogatory at all -- I just mean phrases like 'open society' are used in discussion and argument by a large variety of people with a large variety of beliefs, and it always essentially means 'an implementation of my particular belief system'. Libertarianism provided an excellent example because of how prevalent it is on HN -- so prevalent in fact that I had a real life Libertarian pop out to defend it!