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You are entitled to your opinion. As a Muslim, I feel sorry for those who don't get Islam's message yet believe they do when all they're seeing is the surface.

by Cyph0n 11y ago

jules 11y ago
I'm an atheist as well, but I realize that this may be just out of ignorance since I don't really know why somebody believes. Would you be willing to have a conversation about your faith so that I can understand the perspective of somebody who does believe?
- Cyph0n 11y ago
  Of course! Keep in mind that I'm just an average Muslim, so I might not be able to address all of your questions.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - jules 11y ago
    That's great, because one of the things I wonder most is what faith is like in day to day experience. I'll send you an email :)
    - utku_karatas2 11y ago
      You could also check out r/islam and post there for a wider audience.
redial 11y ago
When the message starts with a private 'revelation', not to me but to others, that I have to unquestionably accept giving some other mammal total control over my mind or be tortured forever, I don't need to be told anymore. It's insulting, childish, it belongs in the infancy of our species and it needs to be outgrown, never mind how 'good' it makes you feel inside.
- Cyph0n 11y ago
  What private revelation? Go to your nearest bookstore and pick up the Quran. Problem solved. "Other mammal" here refers to what exactly? As for punishment, that happens when you intentionally deny the existence of the Creator, even when given the access to His word and religion. Islam teaches us that human beings are born pure and good by default, unlike other religions. Suppose you lived your life on a remote island, never knowing about Islam or the Quran. In that case, you will be treated as if you lived your whole life as a Muslim in the hereafter. Why? Because you did not actively and intentionally deny it, and were not aware of its existence. If you think religion is childish, OK. I don't.
  - redial 11y ago
    Other mammals as in the ones who use religious texts to get 'power' in the real world. Politicians, military leaders, jihadists, and sadly even teachers and parents. And was the Quran not a revelation from 'God' only to Muhammad? If he wants to believe it, fine, why should anybody else? Oh yes, eternal torture. It is childish to be told a story and believe it true only because they threaten you.
    - Cyph0n 11y ago
      Oh yes, I agree. Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world where not all followers of a religion follow its true message. You might say "well OK, so get rid of religion". People will still seek power, but in other ways. In other words, there are people who always seek the easiest way to gain more power and influence. Yes, the Quran was revealed directly to Muhammad. He told his wife first, and she believed him. It just spread from there. I'd argue that the absolutely miracolous rate at which Islam spread throughout the region is a plus in favor of Islam :) As for your point about eternal torture, let's say a guy comes up to you in the street nowadays and tells you he's a Prophet sent by God to save humanity. He tells you about this book called Mojimbi which is the word of God. At this point, you have complete freedom to accept of reject his claim. Unless he can convince you that what he's saying is true, you wouldn't believe him and he'd be on his way. Muhammad however was able to convince people with two things. One, he was known in his community to be an extremely honest person; never once did anyone hear of him lying. He was a trader, so he dealt with a lot of people. So when he said that he was visited by an angel etc, some people just believed him on the spot. Of course, many others called him crazy, so it wasn't a fool-proof plan. Two, he had the Quran. Some background first. The community Muhammad lived in was very well-versed in the Arabic language. Most mastered the language and its intricacies by the age of 10, and were known as experts in poetry. Look it up, Arabic is extremely complex. So he recites some verses from the Quran to people and claims that these are words from Allah (keep in mind he was illiterate). They were amazed, absolutely awestruck by the words coming out of his mouth. The structure and linguistic nature of the verses was perfect, and this was coming from experts in the language! One of the Prophet's biggest critics (and a great poet no less) at the time was almost going to join Islam just because of this. Now, let's go back to the example. You're a professor of English language at Standford, and a guy you've dealt with a lot and who you know is an extremely honest person in all aspects tells you the same message. He also recites some verses that are so elegant and beautiful in structure that they make Shakespeare look like a pre-schooler's work, and tells you these are the words of God. Wouldn't that make things different?

You are entitled to your opinion. As a Muslim, I feel sorry for those who don't get Islam's message yet believe they do when all they're seeing is the surface.

by Cyph0n 11y ago

You are entitled to your opinion. As a Muslim, I feel sorry for those who don't get Islam's message yet believe they do when all they're seeing is the surface.

jules 11y ago

I'm an atheist as well, but I realize that this may be just out of ignorance since I don't really know why somebody believes. Would you be willing to have a conversation about your faith so that I can understand the perspective of somebody who does believe?

Cyph0n 11y ago
Of course! Keep in mind that I'm just an average Muslim, so I might not be able to address all of your questions.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jules 11y ago
  That's great, because one of the things I wonder most is what faith is like in day to day experience. I'll send you an email :)
  - utku_karatas2 11y ago
    You could also check out r/islam and post there for a wider audience.

redial 11y ago

When the message starts with a private 'revelation', not to me but to others, that I have to unquestionably accept giving some other mammal total control over my mind or be tortured forever, I don't need to be told anymore. It's insulting, childish, it belongs in the infancy of our species and it needs to be outgrown, never mind how 'good' it makes you feel inside.

Cyph0n 11y ago
What private revelation? Go to your nearest bookstore and pick up the Quran. Problem solved. "Other mammal" here refers to what exactly? As for punishment, that happens when you intentionally deny the existence of the Creator, even when given the access to His word and religion. Islam teaches us that human beings are born pure and good by default, unlike other religions. Suppose you lived your life on a remote island, never knowing about Islam or the Quran. In that case, you will be treated as if you lived your whole life as a Muslim in the hereafter. Why? Because you did not actively and intentionally deny it, and were not aware of its existence. If you think religion is childish, OK. I don't.
- redial 11y ago
  Other mammals as in the ones who use religious texts to get 'power' in the real world. Politicians, military leaders, jihadists, and sadly even teachers and parents. And was the Quran not a revelation from 'God' only to Muhammad? If he wants to believe it, fine, why should anybody else? Oh yes, eternal torture. It is childish to be told a story and believe it true only because they threaten you.
  - Cyph0n 11y ago
    Oh yes, I agree. Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world where not all followers of a religion follow its true message. You might say "well OK, so get rid of religion". People will still seek power, but in other ways. In other words, there are people who always seek the easiest way to gain more power and influence. Yes, the Quran was revealed directly to Muhammad. He told his wife first, and she believed him. It just spread from there. I'd argue that the absolutely miracolous rate at which Islam spread throughout the region is a plus in favor of Islam :) As for your point about eternal torture, let's say a guy comes up to you in the street nowadays and tells you he's a Prophet sent by God to save humanity. He tells you about this book called Mojimbi which is the word of God. At this point, you have complete freedom to accept of reject his claim. Unless he can convince you that what he's saying is true, you wouldn't believe him and he'd be on his way. Muhammad however was able to convince people with two things. One, he was known in his community to be an extremely honest person; never once did anyone hear of him lying. He was a trader, so he dealt with a lot of people. So when he said that he was visited by an angel etc, some people just believed him on the spot. Of course, many others called him crazy, so it wasn't a fool-proof plan. Two, he had the Quran. Some background first. The community Muhammad lived in was very well-versed in the Arabic language. Most mastered the language and its intricacies by the age of 10, and were known as experts in poetry. Look it up, Arabic is extremely complex. So he recites some verses from the Quran to people and claims that these are words from Allah (keep in mind he was illiterate). They were amazed, absolutely awestruck by the words coming out of his mouth. The structure and linguistic nature of the verses was perfect, and this was coming from experts in the language! One of the Prophet's biggest critics (and a great poet no less) at the time was almost going to join Islam just because of this. Now, let's go back to the example. You're a professor of English language at Standford, and a guy you've dealt with a lot and who you know is an extremely honest person in all aspects tells you the same message. He also recites some verses that are so elegant and beautiful in structure that they make Shakespeare look like a pre-schooler's work, and tells you these are the words of God. Wouldn't that make things different?