3 ms·

> ... (slavery, murder, and Hitler) You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago (and now that I've put things into perspective for you), lets

> ... (slavery, murder, and Hitler) You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago (and now that I've put things into perspective for you), lets be open minded about another someone doing another something bad right now, because it's only fare!" argument.

coldtea 11y ago
>You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago (and now that I've put things into perspective for you), lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!" argument. So many misunderstandings I don't know where to start. First, did I say anywhere "lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!"? No, and that's why you didn't directly quote from my comment. In fact in it I very precisely write: "We should condemn all violence -- not forgive the one that has better PR and is done by cool looking people who have the same background as us.". Second, I don't try to justify or excuse (I mean, Jesus!), just to put in perspective and explain. And one main I try to explain is that "40% of people" believing a horrible thing is neither irredeemable, nor unknown for even in our countries, even in the time of our fathers and grandfathers. Those people grew up in countries that resulted of those conditions and heard those horror stories from their relatives. Third, as I noted it's not "some time ago", it's something ongoing. Foreign powers still plunder, meddle and hold those countries down, with unbelievably far greater blood tolls than all those attacks combined. So, more like "If you fuck people over repeatedly, including having a history of enslaving their parents, you shouldn't be that surprised that they might come and hit you back, or that they develop a cult of hating you and what you stand for".
- powertower 11y ago
  > Second, I don't try to justify or excuse (I mean, Jesus!), just to put in perspective and explain. That's the point, you are putting in perspective unrelated things and unrelated places and unrelated times... None of the events you listed are related to the polling results that almost half of Muslims think that death should be the penalty for apostasy. That's something inherent to the ideology and its resulting culture.
  - salgernon 11y ago
    In America, some 28% of christians are biblical literalists of the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it sort" So they probably would agree with this passage from their bible: Deuteronomy 13:6-10: “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you … Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.” So... Yea. Oh, and in the 80s in high school, I had a loaded gun held to my head and was told that if I did t believe in god (which god??!!) I must surely be worshipping satan. (The kid with the gun was pulled away by his friends. Lest I forget to mention it, this was a school in Texas. Somehow that is relevant, I'm sure.)
    - iamthepieman 11y ago
      > So they probably would agree with this passage from their bible: Deuteronomy 13:6-10: No. The bible says itself that those laws no longer apply. Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Galatians 5:13-15 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        >No. The bible says itself that those laws no longer apply. That never stopped Christian fanatics from selectively mix and matching the Bible. For so-called Christians, ALL the Old Testament stuff should no longer apply when it clashes with what Christ said (which is like all of the time). But they still prefer the Old Testament's more barbaric and base rules than what's in the Gospels.

coldtea 11y ago

>You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago (and now that I've put things into perspective for you), lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!" argument. So many misunderstandings I don't know where to start. First, did I say anywhere "lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!"? No, and that's why you didn't directly quote from my comment. In fact in it I very precisely write: "We should condemn all violence -- not forgive the one that has better PR and is done by cool looking people who have the same background as us.". Second, I don't try to justify or excuse (I mean, Jesus!), just to put in perspective and explain. And one main I try to explain is that "40% of people" believing a horrible thing is neither irredeemable, nor unknown for even in our countries, even in the time of our fathers and grandfathers. Those people grew up in countries that resulted of those conditions and heard those horror stories from their relatives. Third, as I noted it's not "some time ago", it's something ongoing. Foreign powers still plunder, meddle and hold those countries down, with unbelievably far greater blood tolls than all those attacks combined. So, more like "If you fuck people over repeatedly, including having a history of enslaving their parents, you shouldn't be that surprised that they might come and hit you back, or that they develop a cult of hating you and what you stand for".

powertower 11y ago
> Second, I don't try to justify or excuse (I mean, Jesus!), just to put in perspective and explain. That's the point, you are putting in perspective unrelated things and unrelated places and unrelated times... None of the events you listed are related to the polling results that almost half of Muslims think that death should be the penalty for apostasy. That's something inherent to the ideology and its resulting culture.
- salgernon 11y ago
  In America, some 28% of christians are biblical literalists of the "God said it, I believe it, that settles it sort" So they probably would agree with this passage from their bible: Deuteronomy 13:6-10: “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you … Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.” So... Yea. Oh, and in the 80s in high school, I had a loaded gun held to my head and was told that if I did t believe in god (which god??!!) I must surely be worshipping satan. (The kid with the gun was pulled away by his friends. Lest I forget to mention it, this was a school in Texas. Somehow that is relevant, I'm sure.)
  - iamthepieman 11y ago
    > So they probably would agree with this passage from their bible: Deuteronomy 13:6-10: No. The bible says itself that those laws no longer apply. Romans 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Galatians 5:13-15 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      >No. The bible says itself that those laws no longer apply. That never stopped Christian fanatics from selectively mix and matching the Bible. For so-called Christians, ALL the Old Testament stuff should no longer apply when it clashes with what Christ said (which is like all of the time). But they still prefer the Old Testament's more barbaric and base rules than what's in the Gospels.