5 ms·

So let's quantify your definitions of "significant" and "terrorism". In the past 5 years, about 2% of terrorist attacks in Europe were found to be religiously m

by kohanz 11y ago

So let's quantify your definitions of "significant" and "terrorism". In the past 5 years, about 2% of terrorist attacks in Europe were found to be religiously motivated [0]. The majority are perpetrated by separatist organizations. There are over 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide [1]. Size estimates for the terrorist groups are: ISIS (52k - 258k [2]), Al Qaeda (19k-27k [3]). There are others, but I believe these are the main ones that people are talking about when worrying about terrorist threats abroad. We're talking about 1 in 5,600 to 22,535. My humble opinion is that the terrorist threat worldwide is indeed significant, but if you think that it is a problem with Islam, then you are playing right into the hands of the extremists, who want (and they have publicly published these intentions) to divide the world into two camps that hate each other. The more hatred you direct towards Muslims, the more you drive them apart from you. ISIS's stated objective is basically world war - they want you to hate Muslims, so that Muslims feel like they have nowhere to go in the Western world. [0] http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/08/3609796/islamist-terrorism-europe/ http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/08/3609796/islamist-t... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

tome 11y ago
Counting "number of attacks" is extremely misleading (I'm tempted to think, deliberately so). A moment's Googling shows that Islamic terror is responsible for the majority of deaths, by a long way http://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7552225/terrorism-europe-chart http://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7552225/terrorism-europe-chart (and you can add a big chunk of green for France November 2015 now too)
- kohanz 11y ago
  Speaking of cherry-picking data, no comment on the 2nd and 3rd points? As I said, I agree that terrorism (no matter how you categorize the attacks) is a significant problem, but that linking it with Islam is choosing to be manipulated by the extremists.
  - tome 11y ago
    I don't think that the numbers of ISIS and the numbers of muslims worldwide bear meaningful comparison. Your third point I responded to in another reply.
tome 11y ago
> The more hatred you direct towards Muslims, the more you drive them apart from you. I find this comment very strange. It's as though I can't acknowledge that Islamic terror is the biggest violent threat facing Europe whilst at the same time not hate muslims (?!?!?! how can anyone do that ?!?!?!).
- kohanz 11y ago
  If you don't understand how branding it as "Islamic" terror, despite the insignificant association between the two populations will make law-abiding Muslims (who make up about 99.99% and practise Islam) feel divided from you, I don't know what to tell you.
  - tome 11y ago
    Ah, I see your point. Yes, using that word can easily mislead the general population. But what word would you suggest for a site (like this one) where people like to think they have a clue?
    - kohanz 11y ago
      I think the tendency to label them as extremists is a step in the right direction. I prefer "extremist" alone to "Islamic extremist", because in the latter the association remains, but let's be honest that association has been cemented by the media already, it's not going away. I am not a Muslim, but live in a Western country with a lot of friends who are and can see the identity struggles they have, wanting to assimilate, but having the media drive this wedge between them and people who don't know them.
      - tome 11y ago
        OK, I can see more clearly where you are coming from now. Thank you for clarifying. To reiterate, I don't think it's contradictory to be honest about the source of this terror whilst at the same time supporting, nay demanding, the full safety and civil liberties of muslim citizens.

by kohanz 11y ago

tome 11y ago

Counting "number of attacks" is extremely misleading (I'm tempted to think, deliberately so). A moment's Googling shows that Islamic terror is responsible for the majority of deaths, by a long way http://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7552225/terrorism-europe-chart http://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7552225/terrorism-europe-chart (and you can add a big chunk of green for France November 2015 now too)

kohanz 11y ago
Speaking of cherry-picking data, no comment on the 2nd and 3rd points? As I said, I agree that terrorism (no matter how you categorize the attacks) is a significant problem, but that linking it with Islam is choosing to be manipulated by the extremists.
- tome 11y ago
  I don't think that the numbers of ISIS and the numbers of muslims worldwide bear meaningful comparison. Your third point I responded to in another reply.

tome 11y ago

> The more hatred you direct towards Muslims, the more you drive them apart from you. I find this comment very strange. It's as though I can't acknowledge that Islamic terror is the biggest violent threat facing Europe whilst at the same time not hate muslims (?!?!?! how can anyone do that ?!?!?!).

kohanz 11y ago
If you don't understand how branding it as "Islamic" terror, despite the insignificant association between the two populations will make law-abiding Muslims (who make up about 99.99% and practise Islam) feel divided from you, I don't know what to tell you.
- tome 11y ago
  Ah, I see your point. Yes, using that word can easily mislead the general population. But what word would you suggest for a site (like this one) where people like to think they have a clue?
  - kohanz 11y ago
    I think the tendency to label them as extremists is a step in the right direction. I prefer "extremist" alone to "Islamic extremist", because in the latter the association remains, but let's be honest that association has been cemented by the media already, it's not going away. I am not a Muslim, but live in a Western country with a lot of friends who are and can see the identity struggles they have, wanting to assimilate, but having the media drive this wedge between them and people who don't know them.
    - tome 11y ago
      OK, I can see more clearly where you are coming from now. Thank you for clarifying. To reiterate, I don't think it's contradictory to be honest about the source of this terror whilst at the same time supporting, nay demanding, the full safety and civil liberties of muslim citizens.