4 ms·

Encrypted Messaging isn't the problem. They should have better boarder control, background check on people before letting them in, communication with other cou

Encrypted Messaging isn't the problem. They should have better boarder control, background check on people before letting them in, communication with other countries, and better integration. Also perhaps programs for more tolerant people, and ease/integrate immigrants in instead of more religious and toward the extreme end of the spectrum. There are many other solutions without sacrificing freedom and privacy.

danieldk 11y ago
Indeed. Some of the terrorists were from Molenbeek, a Brussels suburb that has been out of control for the authorities for decades. The same applies to some Parisian suburbs. Rather than investing in these suburbs and getting human eyes and ears on the ground. We spend many millions more on bombs and anti terror units. Encryption is an easy scapegoat and convenient for power grabs. Saying 'we mismanaged these suburbs' takes political courage.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  > Indeed. Some of the terrorists were from Molenbeek, a Brussels suburb that has been out of control for the authorities for decades. The same applies to some Parisian suburbs. Can you explain that a bit? There is not enough political will to impose order there or something else?
  - danieldk 11y ago
    I am not sure, since I am from a neighbouring country. Some analysts said that in the case of France, Sarkozy pulled resources from local projects and local police to form anti-terror units, etc. Some areas have regressed so much that regular policemen do not want to go there. In the case of Belgium, one of the problems is that there was never a push towards integrating North-Africans. Traditionally, the left has been in favor of 'multi-culti' -- you basically allow minorities to form their own community without much outside interference. As far as I understand, this has been strengthened in Belgium by the socialist party, which pretty much maintained this non-interference policy for votes. This leads to problems, because in other cities/countries family and friends would signal radicalisation to the authorities. Here, many people do not even speak Dutch or French and mistrust authority.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      I like to look at Canada in this respect. They have done arguably a very good job at integrating newcomers. The country has substantially increased its population in the last 40 years and yet I did not meet any individuals that did not think of themselves as 'Canadian' first. And that's in spite of cities like Toronto containing areas labeled little Italy or Chinatown. Integration of the Muslim community at large in Western Europe is for reasonably large numbers of people a failure. Of course there are also plenty of people that did integrate and that will stand up to defend the values of the countries that they have adopted. But not at the level that Canada has managed to achieve.
  - michielr 11y ago
    The WaPo has an article on Molenbeek. As far as I can tell (I go to Molenbeek a couple of times a year) it's pretty accurate. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-belgian-neighborhood-indelibly-linked-to-jihad/2015/11/15/02bba49c-8b39-11e5-bd91-d385b244482f_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-belgian-neighborhoo...

danieldk 11y ago

Indeed. Some of the terrorists were from Molenbeek, a Brussels suburb that has been out of control for the authorities for decades. The same applies to some Parisian suburbs. Rather than investing in these suburbs and getting human eyes and ears on the ground. We spend many millions more on bombs and anti terror units. Encryption is an easy scapegoat and convenient for power grabs. Saying 'we mismanaged these suburbs' takes political courage.

venomsnake 11y ago
> Indeed. Some of the terrorists were from Molenbeek, a Brussels suburb that has been out of control for the authorities for decades. The same applies to some Parisian suburbs. Can you explain that a bit? There is not enough political will to impose order there or something else?
- danieldk 11y ago
  I am not sure, since I am from a neighbouring country. Some analysts said that in the case of France, Sarkozy pulled resources from local projects and local police to form anti-terror units, etc. Some areas have regressed so much that regular policemen do not want to go there. In the case of Belgium, one of the problems is that there was never a push towards integrating North-Africans. Traditionally, the left has been in favor of 'multi-culti' -- you basically allow minorities to form their own community without much outside interference. As far as I understand, this has been strengthened in Belgium by the socialist party, which pretty much maintained this non-interference policy for votes. This leads to problems, because in other cities/countries family and friends would signal radicalisation to the authorities. Here, many people do not even speak Dutch or French and mistrust authority.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    I like to look at Canada in this respect. They have done arguably a very good job at integrating newcomers. The country has substantially increased its population in the last 40 years and yet I did not meet any individuals that did not think of themselves as 'Canadian' first. And that's in spite of cities like Toronto containing areas labeled little Italy or Chinatown. Integration of the Muslim community at large in Western Europe is for reasonably large numbers of people a failure. Of course there are also plenty of people that did integrate and that will stand up to defend the values of the countries that they have adopted. But not at the level that Canada has managed to achieve.
- michielr 11y ago
  The WaPo has an article on Molenbeek. As far as I can tell (I go to Molenbeek a couple of times a year) it's pretty accurate. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-belgian-neighborhood-indelibly-linked-to-jihad/2015/11/15/02bba49c-8b39-11e5-bd91-d385b244482f_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-belgian-neighborhoo...