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> once again you've successfully spurred a country to move away from its dependence on American technology, while doing nothing to meaningfully improve our secu

> once again you've successfully spurred a country to move away from its dependence on American technology, while doing nothing to meaningfully improve our security. That's only if they are successful. And success, especially in that industry, is far from guaranteed. There are some critical breakthroughs they would need to make just to compete with the likes of Intel on even their low-mid range processors. Most of their designs are propriety which means China's computer initiative is going to be starting from scratch. That means they're starting at a point which puts them behind everyone else by at least 10-13 years or more. And still, there's no guarantee they'll ever come close to catching up. It's a huge $47B gamble on their part, which is almost certainly why they haven't done it sooner. That's a lot of money to lose, even for China, if they bust. And I know some of you are thinking, "Well, they'll just steal the tech! Espionage baby!" Sorry, but that too, is unlikely. Due to China's recent aggressive tech grabs over the last decade or two, companies have "wised up" to IP theft and go to extreme measures to protect their assets. Some of those protections rival or even exceed the U.S governments. China's wild west days of stealing everyone else's IPs are winding down.

kevinchen 11y ago
I understand that making chips is hard, but this thinking reminds me of the Palm CEO's quote "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in." Just look at how far Apple and TSMC have come since 2009. Sure, Apple "cheated" by acquiring PA Semi (the DEC Alpha people). But China has the rest of the ingredients: vertical integration of hardware/software (I assume these will be used for defense-related HPC), strong political incentives to be independent, and massive amounts of cash.
- bigtones 11y ago
  Apple does not fab its own chips, it just designs them from IP licenced from British firm ARM. This article is referring to constructing a fab plant to produce nand chips.
mangeletti 11y ago
China has near clones of the F-35 Lightning, the Comanche stealth helicopter, the best of Russia's newest generation of tanks, etc. I purchased a Trijicon ACOG clone from China for $136. It's just as good as, if not better than (doesn't require a battery for the chevron, and a battery powered chevron is, IMHO, not a good feature), the real thing, which costs civilians $1,400, and our military something like $800 each. I can't speak for the highest of the high tech, in terms of a "wind down", but I can assure you that $47B in China will get you a LOT more than $47B will in the US, and the lack of R&D costs is a big part of that.
- mahranch 11y ago
  > China has near clones of the F-35 Lightning, the Comanche stealth helicopter, the best of Russia's newest generation of tanks, etc. So they say. There's no way I'm taking China at their word. They're only slightly less full of it than North Korea. And according to the wikipedia page on the Shenyang J-31, it (at best) matches up with 4th generation fighters. Not the F35. They tried to copy it but their copy is only (maybe) as good as the previous 4th generation. Which is of little to no concern. Which is kinda that point. Their knock-offs are just that. Knock-offs. And none of those IP theft acquisitions have been recent. Their F35 theft supposedly happened nearly a decade ago.

kevinchen 11y ago

I understand that making chips is hard, but this thinking reminds me of the Palm CEO's quote "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in." Just look at how far Apple and TSMC have come since 2009. Sure, Apple "cheated" by acquiring PA Semi (the DEC Alpha people). But China has the rest of the ingredients: vertical integration of hardware/software (I assume these will be used for defense-related HPC), strong political incentives to be independent, and massive amounts of cash.

bigtones 11y ago
Apple does not fab its own chips, it just designs them from IP licenced from British firm ARM. This article is referring to constructing a fab plant to produce nand chips.

mangeletti 11y ago

China has near clones of the F-35 Lightning, the Comanche stealth helicopter, the best of Russia's newest generation of tanks, etc. I purchased a Trijicon ACOG clone from China for $136. It's just as good as, if not better than (doesn't require a battery for the chevron, and a battery powered chevron is, IMHO, not a good feature), the real thing, which costs civilians $1,400, and our military something like $800 each. I can't speak for the highest of the high tech, in terms of a "wind down", but I can assure you that $47B in China will get you a LOT more than $47B will in the US, and the lack of R&D costs is a big part of that.

mahranch 11y ago
> China has near clones of the F-35 Lightning, the Comanche stealth helicopter, the best of Russia's newest generation of tanks, etc. So they say. There's no way I'm taking China at their word. They're only slightly less full of it than North Korea. And according to the wikipedia page on the Shenyang J-31, it (at best) matches up with 4th generation fighters. Not the F35. They tried to copy it but their copy is only (maybe) as good as the previous 4th generation. Which is of little to no concern. Which is kinda that point. Their knock-offs are just that. Knock-offs. And none of those IP theft acquisitions have been recent. Their F35 theft supposedly happened nearly a decade ago.