4 ms·

I know. I was surprised to find that my manager hadn't taken FP, while I had during coursework in computational biology at such a school. I think this just illu

by rtl49 11y ago

I know. I was surprised to find that my manager hadn't taken FP, while I had during coursework in computational biology at such a school. I think this just illustrates my point: in industry-oriented programs, FP isn't considered a useful tool. Right or wrong, it's the current reality.

the_af 11y ago
Yes, FP is uncommon, though it's gradually becoming less so. However, I'm puzzled about your remark about industry-oriented programs. I'm not sure what "industry-oriented programs" even means, but assuming you actually meant "FP doesn't have widespread use in the industry", I'd say that while this is true, a- it's becoming less true every day, through the use of mixed-paradigm languages, and b- even the purer FP languages see industry use. "Right or wrong" this current reality you mentioned is shifting. Hybrid languages are becoming more common. Traditional languages are adopting functional idioms (and idioms from other paradigms as well!). It's not true that there is a clear-cut "natural" kind of programs for which to use FP; the area for which FP is good is pretty much good old "let's write software that works and has few bugs". If you have this goal, you can use FP to your advantage. Any success story of someone using OCaml for this is welcome.
- rtl49 11y ago
  By industry-oriented programs, I'm referring to institutions of higher learning which have tailored their cirricula primarily to prepare their students for employment in industry. I contrast this with those which are intended to prepare their students for research. I've said nothing of depth about the merits of OCaml or FP in itself. I'm simply pointing out that the blog post clearly identifies the use of OCaml as a competitive advantage without discussing any of its drawbacks, whether these arise from the nature of the language itself or for historical reasons. This makes the article significantly less useful for a person trying to select a language for their company's codebase, which I take to be the whole point of writing the post to begin with. Perhaps the real goal of the post was to attract the attention of OCaml developers, rather than discussing the titular question "Why we use OCaml." If this is the case, I'm sorry for having wasted my time criticizing it.
  - loup-vaillant 11y ago
    It's a piece of advocacy. I wouldn't expect it to discuss downsides much. What irks me more is the absence of meaty arguments for the language. But then I realised that explaining why the listed features are good is hard. Someone who haven't been exposed to FP is going to take a lot of teaching and persuading. Or a damn good motivating example, but I have yet to find one.
  - the_af 11y ago
    Oh, I misunderstood your comment then. I suppose you're right, but I think industry-oriented school programs will start featuring more FP in their curricula as hybrid languages advance even further in the real world. Like a sibling comment said, this is an advocacy piece. I don't know if anyone will pick OCaml (or any language) for their company immediately after reading a blog, but it might pique their interest and make them research the language and consider it for their own projects, an interest which might eventually develop into considering the language for their day job. I know it was the case for me with Scala!

by rtl49 11y ago

the_af 11y ago

Yes, FP is uncommon, though it's gradually becoming less so. However, I'm puzzled about your remark about industry-oriented programs. I'm not sure what "industry-oriented programs" even means, but assuming you actually meant "FP doesn't have widespread use in the industry", I'd say that while this is true, a- it's becoming less true every day, through the use of mixed-paradigm languages, and b- even the purer FP languages see industry use. "Right or wrong" this current reality you mentioned is shifting. Hybrid languages are becoming more common. Traditional languages are adopting functional idioms (and idioms from other paradigms as well!). It's not true that there is a clear-cut "natural" kind of programs for which to use FP; the area for which FP is good is pretty much good old "let's write software that works and has few bugs". If you have this goal, you can use FP to your advantage. Any success story of someone using OCaml for this is welcome.

rtl49 11y ago
By industry-oriented programs, I'm referring to institutions of higher learning which have tailored their cirricula primarily to prepare their students for employment in industry. I contrast this with those which are intended to prepare their students for research. I've said nothing of depth about the merits of OCaml or FP in itself. I'm simply pointing out that the blog post clearly identifies the use of OCaml as a competitive advantage without discussing any of its drawbacks, whether these arise from the nature of the language itself or for historical reasons. This makes the article significantly less useful for a person trying to select a language for their company's codebase, which I take to be the whole point of writing the post to begin with. Perhaps the real goal of the post was to attract the attention of OCaml developers, rather than discussing the titular question "Why we use OCaml." If this is the case, I'm sorry for having wasted my time criticizing it.
- loup-vaillant 11y ago
  It's a piece of advocacy. I wouldn't expect it to discuss downsides much. What irks me more is the absence of meaty arguments for the language. But then I realised that explaining why the listed features are good is hard. Someone who haven't been exposed to FP is going to take a lot of teaching and persuading. Or a damn good motivating example, but I have yet to find one.
- the_af 11y ago
  Oh, I misunderstood your comment then. I suppose you're right, but I think industry-oriented school programs will start featuring more FP in their curricula as hybrid languages advance even further in the real world. Like a sibling comment said, this is an advocacy piece. I don't know if anyone will pick OCaml (or any language) for their company immediately after reading a blog, but it might pique their interest and make them research the language and consider it for their own projects, an interest which might eventually develop into considering the language for their day job. I know it was the case for me with Scala!