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It's refreshing to read an article about a scientific study from a university press office that doesn't exaggerate or misinterpret its implications. Perhaps it'
by rtl49 11y ago
It's refreshing to read an article about a scientific study from a university press office that doesn't exaggerate or misinterpret its implications. Perhaps it's a luxury of prestigious schools.
I suppose a reasonable hypothesis to draw from this is that a too structured environment in early childhood is destructive to mental health. But I wonder whether they're considering the possibility that being one of the older children in the class carries certain advantages that might affect the development of the child's personality.
If my memory serves, Malcolm Gladwell explored this topic in the book "Outliers" when discussing differences in birth month frequency between successful Canadian hockey players and the general population, except it focused on differences in physical rather than social development between children in the same classes but different age groups.
If something similar were taking place here, delaying kindergarten for the general population wouldn't solve much.
- lintiness 11y agogladwell credited coaching and resources above the age / maturity line he suggested. he's a statist who can't see a harvard degree's a more compelling investment than the same from a state school. on point, what's "structured" about 20 6 year olds to a single teacher? sounds about as chaotic as it can be. the sooner we get away from this monolithic public education way of thinking, the better off our kids will be.
- rtl49 11y agoI don't know enough about Gladwell personally to make a qualified remark, but I don't see the relevance of his supposedly "statist" political views or opinions on the value of higher education. The "structure" I refer to is the traditional classroom setting: chalk board, desks, chairs, and sitting while listening to a lecture. The suggestion is that this format is less optimal for children at the age of 6, and that it might be best if they were closer to 7 before educating them in this environment. Perhaps you believe it's inappropriate for children of any age, but this really has nothing to do with this specific study or my comment. It's just an opinion on public education in general: if written at all, better as a reply to the post than my comment.
- Gibbon1 11y agoStatist is a strong tell to stop wasting your timing reading drivel.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoAttaching political labels to people in a comment is a very strong tell to disregard the entire comment. Telling "he's a statist! [therefore, stupid]" is not an informative argument, it's just lazy, ideological dismissal. Now what exactly is so bad about Gladwell being statist that it discredits his ideas?
- Gibbon1 11y agoThe problem is the only people that use the word statist are self-styled followers of Any Rand[1]. And in that contexts it's always used as an ad hominem attack. So you got two strikes right there. [1]There are of course legions of armchair followers of Ayn Rand in the greater nerd community. But so what. None of those people have informed or coherent arguments about policy.
- ThomPete 11y agoI am actually way more sceptical about this study since the definition of self+regulation is such a slippery term IMO.
- rtl49 11y agoUnfortunately, I can't access the publication at the moment. You can read the abstract here: http://www.nber.org/papers/w21610 http://www.nber.org/papers/w21610 Whatever measurement they made that they're calling "hyperactivity," it seems to have a strong inverse association with academic achievement, so perhaps it warrants concern regardless of how well it relates to our concept of "self-regulation."
- ThomPete 11y agoYeah academic achievement is not really a gold standard either for so many reasons too. I smell some political/ideological bias, but yes thats completely undocumented.
- rtl49 11y agoI don't recall anyone claiming academic achievement is the ultimate evaluation of a person. However it tends to coincide with qualities that societies try to encourage in youth. Hence the interest in improving it.
- ThomPete 11y agoI didn't say anyone was claiming that. I simply reacted to what you wrote. "..it seems to have a strong inverse association with academic achievement.."
- peteretep 11y agoFrom the paper: > a widely used and validated mental-health screening tool (i.e., > the Strengths and Difficulties Questionnaire or SDQ). The SDQ was > was explicitly designed for children and generates measures of > several distinct psychopathological constructs, some of which > are clearly related to the theorized effects of delayed school > starts. > we find that these effects are largely driven by a large > reduction (effect size = -0.70) in a single SDQ construct: the > SDQ’s inattention / hyperactivity score (i.e., a mea-sure of self > regulation).
- steven2012 11y agoIn Texas, familes will often hold their children back so that they are physically larger and more coordinated so that they can excel in football. Not being from Texas, I had never heard of this but apparently its common.
- inthewoods 11y agoIndeed - it even has a term - "red shirting". I believe there is some movement in some states to limit the ability to do this. For my family, I have adopted a "play the child, not the age" approach. My oldest son was clearly ready for kindergarten at age 5, my middle son is not so we're delaying him for one year. One part of this not discussed is what cut off dates do to the process. My oldest son was born in December - while my middle son was born at the end of July. If we put him into kindergarten, he would have been one of the youngest kids. My daughter was born on September 1st, thus she will always be the oldest in the class.
- rtl49 11y agoI find this fascinating. It's easy to see how this would have a cascading effect in a competitive environment. I wonder how they manage to do this without attracting attention from the authorities. I know Texas has a reputation for being a bit more individualistic, but I presume they have compulsory childhood education like the other states.
- duaneb 11y ago> It's refreshing to read an article about a scientific study from a university press office that doesn't exaggerate or misinterpret its implications. It's still weird to read about a paper via press release. Papers should stand on their own, not require PR.
- rtl49 11y agoTake a look at arXiv.org and tell me out of all of them which papers seem to stand out. There's too little time in a day and in a life for anyone to become independently aware of all happenings of personal interest. We rely on other to curate what we see, and it happens that many parties vie for our attention. Hence the development of propaganda and news aggregators, like the one you're on now. I recommend reading Edward L. Bernay's work Propaganda for a more thorough understanding about the role of "PR" in society. It's a good foundation. I actually remember reading another rather good post by Paul Graham on the subject, which you might find interesting.
- vezzy-fnord 11y agoI recommend reading Edward L. Bernay's [sic] work Propaganda for a more thorough understanding about the role of "PR" in society. That's certainly a great book, though for rather unsettling reasons.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoIt seems to be public domain now, so links: http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html - HTML version https://wikispooks.com/w/images/1/1f/Propaganda.pdf https://wikispooks.com/w/images/1/1f/Propaganda.pdf - PDF version The introduction quote by Noam Chomsky in the fist link is... chilling. Anyway, thanks HN for recommending a free book this time (my Amazon spendings start to feel like HN tax lately).
- rtl49 11y agoMy pleasure. I find many of the works most worth reading are in the public domain.