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Look, let's not kid ourselves, the problem is not technical. I'm sorry, but this stuff isn't rocket science, and even if it was, this plugin has existed for ove

Look, let's not kid ourselves, the problem is not technical. I'm sorry, but this stuff isn't rocket science, and even if it was, this plugin has existed for over 20 years, so they should have figured it out by now. Just think to yourself how much better the browser has gotten in that time frame, and its roughly how much worse the plugin has gotten. The reasons are clearly either politics or incompetence. Now, I'm not sure what those politics might be. I don't personally believe that its that Adobe is "angry" at Mac or something, but I for example know that they are absolutely paranoid about accepting changes to the core code (even obvious crasher fixes require a ton of approval and consideration). It really is to their own detriment. Regardless of how big the Mac market may be (its too big now to ignore and getting bigger), its a very powerful market of people that matter: i.e. developers. If Adobe got their act together, they would wipe the floor with JS, HTML5, etc. I mean, they almost do now, its purely due to their inability that they haven't completely and absolutely taken over the web. Of course, the same can be said of standards. Taking 10 years to have any sort of measurable change on the W3C side is equally unacceptable (and we still ended up with a video solution that guarantees Flash will dominate this field for the next 10 years). Its always funny to me when people talk about whether "standards" or "flash" is winning, because it seems like a race where both parties are running backwards.

imajes 17y ago
really well said.
moe 17y ago
this plugin has existed for over 20 years 14 years. Regardless of how big the Mac market may be (its too big now to ignore and getting bigger) Nu-uh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_share.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_sha... because it seems like a race where both parties are running backwards. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1925723,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1925723,00.ht...
- tolmasky 17y ago
  14 years Sorry, you are absolutely correct the plugin itself came out in 1996 with the original software having been developed earlier by PenPoint. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_share.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_sha... Not sure what that is supposed to prove, some would argue that that is a sizable chunk (bigger than Windows 7 currently). But that's really besides the point since the argument was that the people that matter are running it.
  - moe 17y ago
    When you want to deliver video or games on the web then it's flash, period. There is no alternative, consequently adobe doesn't need to care about a few crying developers. As you pointed out this may partly change at some point in the future with the HTML video tag, but that happens independently of happy or unhappy developers.
    - tolmasky 17y ago
      Yes, we all know this is the case, this is not novel information and I will in fact take it a step further and say that its not just games but just about any media products on the web where Flash is the only answer. For example, it is completely unrealistic to make a YouTube or Vimeo or even ESPN.com without Flash today. My point is that they could have more than just the pure media market if they got their act together. Its never a good place to be when the only reason people use your software is because theres nothing else, and not because they actually like it. Additionally, assuming that there will never be an alternative is just silly. When your developers are unhappy, they will switch once its possible. The fact that Google Docs and similar apps are being done in JS+HTML should be scary to Adobe, if it isn't then they are frankly not very intelligent. Google will define the web tomorrow, and you better believe the second they can realistically go Flashless they will. Again, all these same arguments apply on the standards side as well, they have dropped the ball and missed the same opportunities again and again, which is why Flash is still in the running (again, both survive due to eachother's weaknesses rather than their own strengths). If Flash absolutely sang on every computer, it would be a much more difficult argument to make to go the standards route. Not necessarily impossible mind you, but certainly much harder. If it worked well and exactly the same on every computer, then its a hard thing to beat.

imajes 17y ago

really well said.

moe 17y ago

this plugin has existed for over 20 years 14 years. Regardless of how big the Mac market may be (its too big now to ignore and getting bigger) Nu-uh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_share.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_sha... because it seems like a race where both parties are running backwards. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1925723,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1925723,00.ht...

tolmasky 17y ago
14 years Sorry, you are absolutely correct the plugin itself came out in 1996 with the original software having been developed earlier by PenPoint. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_share.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operating_system_usage_sha... Not sure what that is supposed to prove, some would argue that that is a sizable chunk (bigger than Windows 7 currently). But that's really besides the point since the argument was that the people that matter are running it.
- moe 17y ago
  When you want to deliver video or games on the web then it's flash, period. There is no alternative, consequently adobe doesn't need to care about a few crying developers. As you pointed out this may partly change at some point in the future with the HTML video tag, but that happens independently of happy or unhappy developers.
  - tolmasky 17y ago
    Yes, we all know this is the case, this is not novel information and I will in fact take it a step further and say that its not just games but just about any media products on the web where Flash is the only answer. For example, it is completely unrealistic to make a YouTube or Vimeo or even ESPN.com without Flash today. My point is that they could have more than just the pure media market if they got their act together. Its never a good place to be when the only reason people use your software is because theres nothing else, and not because they actually like it. Additionally, assuming that there will never be an alternative is just silly. When your developers are unhappy, they will switch once its possible. The fact that Google Docs and similar apps are being done in JS+HTML should be scary to Adobe, if it isn't then they are frankly not very intelligent. Google will define the web tomorrow, and you better believe the second they can realistically go Flashless they will. Again, all these same arguments apply on the standards side as well, they have dropped the ball and missed the same opportunities again and again, which is why Flash is still in the running (again, both survive due to eachother's weaknesses rather than their own strengths). If Flash absolutely sang on every computer, it would be a much more difficult argument to make to go the standards route. Not necessarily impossible mind you, but certainly much harder. If it worked well and exactly the same on every computer, then its a hard thing to beat.