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Apple has supported XMPP since back when Messages.app was still called iChat. The XMPP support is not great, like most OS built-ins, but it works. I'm still usi

Apple has supported XMPP since back when Messages.app was still called iChat. The XMPP support is not great, like most OS built-ins, but it works. I'm still using it to chat on Facebook. If Google hadn't dropped support for XMPP, I could chat with Google users too. I fail to see how Apple is to blame.

colanderman 11y ago
I'm surprised Facebook Chat still works for you? My understanding (and others' experience, from a quick Google) is that XMPP Chat has been disabled since earlier this year: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/chat https://developers.facebook.com/docs/chat They only supported exactly as long as they needed to to gain market share. And Apple gets pretty much zero kudos from me for client XMPP support. iMessage is a proprietary walled garden; client-only XMPP support is simply their one-way valve to get people into their network and only ever had any worth because Facebook and Google used to support XMPP.
- gurkendoktor 11y ago
  I was surprised too, but it works, minus offline messages. (I am using it right now). Do you really think Facebook ever needed the market share from XMPP? I've always assumed that Apple and Facebook only support XMPP because they use it internally (engineers being engineers...) > And Apple gets pretty much zero kudos from me for client XMPP support. I guess we have different expectations. Apple is a company that sells me client hardware/software. I use Mail to connect to standard IMAP servers, I use Messages to connect to a standard XMPP server and Facebook. You can apparently even buy Apple's XMPP server through the Server app on the App Store: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messages_Server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messages_Server The one thing they don't offer is a single, centralised XMPP server. That's not really an active attack on the standard, though. Anyway, I live in a completely different filter bubble than you and your sibling poster - XMPP never had any momentum at all around me, so I can't really speculate on how it died.
kbenson 11y ago
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Apple supports XMPP, in that they read it, but they don't publish to it. Google publishing to XMPP allowed Apple users to read gchat, but nobody else could read iMessage. This provided an advantage to Apple at cost to Google (why use gchat when iMessage lets you do both?) The result? Google proprietarizes gchat so they can compete.

colanderman 11y ago

I'm surprised Facebook Chat still works for you? My understanding (and others' experience, from a quick Google) is that XMPP Chat has been disabled since earlier this year: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/chat https://developers.facebook.com/docs/chat They only supported exactly as long as they needed to to gain market share. And Apple gets pretty much zero kudos from me for client XMPP support. iMessage is a proprietary walled garden; client-only XMPP support is simply their one-way valve to get people into their network and only ever had any worth because Facebook and Google used to support XMPP.

gurkendoktor 11y ago
I was surprised too, but it works, minus offline messages. (I am using it right now). Do you really think Facebook ever needed the market share from XMPP? I've always assumed that Apple and Facebook only support XMPP because they use it internally (engineers being engineers...) > And Apple gets pretty much zero kudos from me for client XMPP support. I guess we have different expectations. Apple is a company that sells me client hardware/software. I use Mail to connect to standard IMAP servers, I use Messages to connect to a standard XMPP server and Facebook. You can apparently even buy Apple's XMPP server through the Server app on the App Store: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messages_Server https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messages_Server The one thing they don't offer is a single, centralised XMPP server. That's not really an active attack on the standard, though. Anyway, I live in a completely different filter bubble than you and your sibling poster - XMPP never had any momentum at all around me, so I can't really speculate on how it died.

kbenson 11y ago

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Apple supports XMPP, in that they read it, but they don't publish to it. Google publishing to XMPP allowed Apple users to read gchat, but nobody else could read iMessage. This provided an advantage to Apple at cost to Google (why use gchat when iMessage lets you do both?) The result? Google proprietarizes gchat so they can compete.