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Maybe I am wrong, but I think key innovation is to reduce cost and environmental impact. Tesla and other high tech cars are maybe cleaner to run, but have large

by jkot 11y ago

Maybe I am wrong, but I think key innovation is to reduce cost and environmental impact. Tesla and other high tech cars are maybe cleaner to run, but have large footprint due to their complicated production. At this front leader is India and China. Tatu in India is doing stuff like gluing car parts together. And China has huge fleet of electric vehicles and recharging stations, in form of electric bikes.

cocoflunchy 11y ago
The total footprint is already lower than for ICE cars according to this study: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-...
- vive-la-liberte 11y ago
  What is ICE? India, China and something else?
  - wibr 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    Internal Combustion Engine.
- Shivetya 11y ago
  does this include disposing of all these batteries? I have no doubt that some range will come strictly from batteries/capacitors for all vehicles. I do not see the current battery technology which requires nearly a thousand pounds of batteries as doing it especially for the scant range it produces. Innovation, just because it does not occur where you think it should does not mean the traditional automakers are not constantly innovation. It is the reliance on many suppliers that allows for innovation to move ahead quickly. All this work towards self driving cars came from developments made by the industry in making safer cars, from ABS to traction control to self aiming lights to airbags. Electrification, the odd thing here is that Tesla kept a 12v system when many have been trying to move all cars to 48v. I think the author is too quick to dismiss the big companies, look how fast GM turned up with the 200 mile range Bolt which should debut before Tesla's III, let alone probably reach higher production numbers Software, the author seems wholly tied up in interfaces. Why do many cars have all these dials? Assurance for the most part and a lot of tradition. Plus they aren't distracting, they are causal glance information sources whereas pretty screens and graphics likely will be distracting. Oh, as for quoting Lutz, while he may not be your cup of tea the guy knows the current industry and how it all works. He does come off like a politician at times and keeps his name in the press by being loud
  - ju-st 11y ago
    Recylcling the batteries is not a problem in my opinion as LiIon batteries just lose capacity over time. Even with 20% remaining capacity or similar one can use them just fine in non automotive applications (most popular is grid storage).
- jkot 11y ago
  I have problem with this study because it assumes CO2 and green house gases are the only form of pollution.
shoo 11y ago
electric cars are potentially more environmentally friendly than vanilla cars, but still pretty bad compared to a decent public transport system. here's an energy-consumption versus speed plot from MacKay's "Sustainable Energy - without the hot air" book: http://www.withouthotair.com/c20/page_128.shtml http://www.withouthotair.com/c20/page_128.shtml i reckon "everyone needs their own car" is nonsense. sure, a nice aspirational goal for the middle-class consumer world, but increasingly irrelevant as we update our thinking to match reality edit: to give a tiny personal anecdote, i live in a city with decent public transport and haven't owned a car for over 5 years, and don't plan on getting one any time soon. i don't use taxis / uber either, it isn't necessary.
- sambeau 11y ago
  Your last point is I think what has the potential to change things here. > i reckon "everyone needs their own car" is nonsense Once cars are self-driving the need to own more than one (if any) is vastly reduced. A family could easily share one car if it can drop everyone off at work and still be available for use mid-day. It looks like Uber is betting on the future being one where even those who own a self-driving car would be hiring it out during times of low-usage. Why own a car when you can summon a driverless one at any point? Similarly we could see a large decrease in the need for at-work and on-street parking if a car can take itself off home. Perhaps there might be a rise in commercial car-parks scattered around a city where a car can retire to safety and for a charge while it awaits its next job. A clever car could pick the most efficient of those to be ready for all users. The biggest concern I have about the rise of the electric car is that we are currently doing little about the cleanliness & CO2 emissions of our electricity generation. Clean/safe nuclear power can't come quickly enough.

by jkot 11y ago

cocoflunchy 11y ago

The total footprint is already lower than for ICE cars according to this study: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-...

vive-la-liberte 11y ago
What is ICE? India, China and something else?
- wibr 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine
- ctdonath 11y ago
  Internal Combustion Engine.
Shivetya 11y ago
does this include disposing of all these batteries? I have no doubt that some range will come strictly from batteries/capacitors for all vehicles. I do not see the current battery technology which requires nearly a thousand pounds of batteries as doing it especially for the scant range it produces. Innovation, just because it does not occur where you think it should does not mean the traditional automakers are not constantly innovation. It is the reliance on many suppliers that allows for innovation to move ahead quickly. All this work towards self driving cars came from developments made by the industry in making safer cars, from ABS to traction control to self aiming lights to airbags. Electrification, the odd thing here is that Tesla kept a 12v system when many have been trying to move all cars to 48v. I think the author is too quick to dismiss the big companies, look how fast GM turned up with the 200 mile range Bolt which should debut before Tesla's III, let alone probably reach higher production numbers Software, the author seems wholly tied up in interfaces. Why do many cars have all these dials? Assurance for the most part and a lot of tradition. Plus they aren't distracting, they are causal glance information sources whereas pretty screens and graphics likely will be distracting. Oh, as for quoting Lutz, while he may not be your cup of tea the guy knows the current industry and how it all works. He does come off like a politician at times and keeps his name in the press by being loud
- ju-st 11y ago
  Recylcling the batteries is not a problem in my opinion as LiIon batteries just lose capacity over time. Even with 20% remaining capacity or similar one can use them just fine in non automotive applications (most popular is grid storage).
jkot 11y ago
I have problem with this study because it assumes CO2 and green house gases are the only form of pollution.

shoo 11y ago

electric cars are potentially more environmentally friendly than vanilla cars, but still pretty bad compared to a decent public transport system. here's an energy-consumption versus speed plot from MacKay's "Sustainable Energy - without the hot air" book: http://www.withouthotair.com/c20/page_128.shtml http://www.withouthotair.com/c20/page_128.shtml i reckon "everyone needs their own car" is nonsense. sure, a nice aspirational goal for the middle-class consumer world, but increasingly irrelevant as we update our thinking to match reality edit: to give a tiny personal anecdote, i live in a city with decent public transport and haven't owned a car for over 5 years, and don't plan on getting one any time soon. i don't use taxis / uber either, it isn't necessary.

sambeau 11y ago
Your last point is I think what has the potential to change things here. > i reckon "everyone needs their own car" is nonsense Once cars are self-driving the need to own more than one (if any) is vastly reduced. A family could easily share one car if it can drop everyone off at work and still be available for use mid-day. It looks like Uber is betting on the future being one where even those who own a self-driving car would be hiring it out during times of low-usage. Why own a car when you can summon a driverless one at any point? Similarly we could see a large decrease in the need for at-work and on-street parking if a car can take itself off home. Perhaps there might be a rise in commercial car-parks scattered around a city where a car can retire to safety and for a charge while it awaits its next job. A clever car could pick the most efficient of those to be ready for all users. The biggest concern I have about the rise of the electric car is that we are currently doing little about the cleanliness & CO2 emissions of our electricity generation. Clean/safe nuclear power can't come quickly enough.