4 ms·

Separately. However their changes and OpenZFS changes are now effectively incompatible. Funnily enough is that OpenZFS is now the more advanced filesystem minu

by jpgvm 11y ago

Separately. However their changes and OpenZFS changes are now effectively incompatible. Funnily enough is that OpenZFS is now the more advanced filesystem minus the clustering features Oracle integrated (shared disk clustering that is, not shared-nothing).

shmerl 11y ago
I guess Oracle still didn't learn anything. Too bad for them.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Their bank account shows how bad Oracle learns its lessons.
  - iwwr 11y ago
    That just gives them a really long runway until the consequences of said decisions become apparent.
    - shmerl 11y ago
      I doubt they'll ever learn though. As Bryan Cantrill put it[1], Oracle is like a landlord. They simply can't comprehend such things. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc
      - iwwr 11y ago
        That's a great talk, thanks!
      - dbdr 11y ago
        > Oracle is like a landlord I think the actual expression Bryan uses is "lawn mower" :)
mphalan 11y ago
I've not followed closely but got any references for that ("the more advanced filesystem")? From what I can see Oracle's ZFS still has some features that OpenZFS lacks (on disk encryption support being one of the most obvious) and there's been lots of development in the last few years. https://blogs.oracle.com/zfs/entry/welcome_to_oracle_solaris_11 https://blogs.oracle.com/zfs/entry/welcome_to_oracle_solaris... Disclaimer: I work for Oracle on Solaris (but not ZFS).
- technion 11y ago
  >on disk encryption Given you could just run LUKS on top of (open)ZFS, it's probably the better security position to run an audited, established encryption product, than to consider a layer thrown on top of ZFS a feature.
  - belovedeagle 11y ago
    There are major benefits to be had from moving the encryption layer on top of the volume management/storage EDAC layers which ZFS provides: in particular, it'd be nice to be able to scrub a locked dataset. I think (but haven't seen this firsthand) that Oracle's implementation offers that benefit.
    - olavgg 11y ago
      You can still scrub a dataset with GELI (https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?geli%288%29 https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?geli%288%29) GELI creates a virtual block device that works great with ZFS, you get it all, self-healing, checksumming etc.
      - belovedeagle 11y ago
        It looks like GELI goes below zfs just like dm-crypt. That doesn't allow you to scrub a locked dataset (one where the key is not in memory, possibly unknown). You could use zvols, of course, but that loses some (but not all) of the full-stack zfs benefits.

by jpgvm 11y ago

shmerl 11y ago

I guess Oracle still didn't learn anything. Too bad for them.

pjmlp 11y ago
Their bank account shows how bad Oracle learns its lessons.
- iwwr 11y ago
  That just gives them a really long runway until the consequences of said decisions become apparent.
  - shmerl 11y ago
    I doubt they'll ever learn though. As Bryan Cantrill put it[1], Oracle is like a landlord. They simply can't comprehend such things. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc
    - iwwr 11y ago
      That's a great talk, thanks!
    - dbdr 11y ago
      > Oracle is like a landlord I think the actual expression Bryan uses is "lawn mower" :)

mphalan 11y ago

I've not followed closely but got any references for that ("the more advanced filesystem")? From what I can see Oracle's ZFS still has some features that OpenZFS lacks (on disk encryption support being one of the most obvious) and there's been lots of development in the last few years. https://blogs.oracle.com/zfs/entry/welcome_to_oracle_solaris_11 https://blogs.oracle.com/zfs/entry/welcome_to_oracle_solaris... Disclaimer: I work for Oracle on Solaris (but not ZFS).

technion 11y ago
>on disk encryption Given you could just run LUKS on top of (open)ZFS, it's probably the better security position to run an audited, established encryption product, than to consider a layer thrown on top of ZFS a feature.
- belovedeagle 11y ago
  There are major benefits to be had from moving the encryption layer on top of the volume management/storage EDAC layers which ZFS provides: in particular, it'd be nice to be able to scrub a locked dataset. I think (but haven't seen this firsthand) that Oracle's implementation offers that benefit.
  - olavgg 11y ago
    You can still scrub a dataset with GELI (https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?geli%288%29 https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?geli%288%29) GELI creates a virtual block device that works great with ZFS, you get it all, self-healing, checksumming etc.
    - belovedeagle 11y ago
      It looks like GELI goes below zfs just like dm-crypt. That doesn't allow you to scrub a locked dataset (one where the key is not in memory, possibly unknown). You could use zvols, of course, but that loses some (but not all) of the full-stack zfs benefits.