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"I'm shocked by the amount of anti-China bias on HN" I think any bias that exists is not so much anti China as anti authoritarianism, anti-democracy, anti-supp

"I'm shocked by the amount of anti-China bias on HN" I think any bias that exists is not so much anti China as anti authoritarianism, anti-democracy, anti-suppression-of-freedom-of-speech, anti-bunch-of-thugs-killing-people-for-having-a-different-opinion etc. I doubt it is really China specific. It is just that the present Chinese government is a nasty ruthless authoritarian dictatorship. The same arguments would be raised here against, say North Korea or Saudi Arabia in other circumstances. People here seemed to be biased towards democracy, rule of law(even with occasional lapses), freedom of expression(even with an occasional lapse or imperfection) etc etc. Not sure it is a bad bias to have.

grandalf 17y ago
You are right in the sense that one would hope that citizens of the US who live in a relatively free state would appreciate the concepts that we claim to hold above all else. However, the question I have it "what should we do about it?". Should we impose trade sanctions? (surely the US tire lobby would appreciate that). Should we begin flying drones over Beijing? (surely our defense lobby would appreciate that), should we engage the CIA to help Chinese dissidents bribe/assassinate Chinese officials who oppose democratic reforms? Should we send warships to wait near Taiwan? All the ire must be directed into action if there is any purpose to it other than self-congratulatory "we're so great b/c we don't use tanks to shut down civilian protests, at least since the 1960s"... What range of actions are you comfortable with? Which of them truly promote the interest of democracy and freedom in China, and which serve a more narrow or militaristic interest? China is full of enlightened people who see the direction they wish China to go over time. Do they all want to become martyrs and die in some coup attempt engineered by the CIA? Or would they rather make a few sacrifices and do what they can to nudge their country toward change? I think it's awfully arrogant for anyone in the US to attempt to engineer revolutions and suffering abroad. The sort of self-righteous moral high ground that China bashers use is essentially neoconservative ideology. Yet we are told it's about human rights. Wake up!
- deleted 17y ago
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  - grandalf 17y ago
    I did not assume you live in the US, btw. I suppose based on your argument we should all shed a tear and not expect anything to change. But then it seems awfully pointless to display ire about something we have no intention of acting on.
    - plinkplonk 17y ago
      I deleted my post. Arguing politics on HN is pointless and detracts from the experience. Bye. Enjoy!
      - grandalf 17y ago
        I guess based on your argument it's fairly clear why you have given up on it ;)

grandalf 17y ago

You are right in the sense that one would hope that citizens of the US who live in a relatively free state would appreciate the concepts that we claim to hold above all else. However, the question I have it "what should we do about it?". Should we impose trade sanctions? (surely the US tire lobby would appreciate that). Should we begin flying drones over Beijing? (surely our defense lobby would appreciate that), should we engage the CIA to help Chinese dissidents bribe/assassinate Chinese officials who oppose democratic reforms? Should we send warships to wait near Taiwan? All the ire must be directed into action if there is any purpose to it other than self-congratulatory "we're so great b/c we don't use tanks to shut down civilian protests, at least since the 1960s"... What range of actions are you comfortable with? Which of them truly promote the interest of democracy and freedom in China, and which serve a more narrow or militaristic interest? China is full of enlightened people who see the direction they wish China to go over time. Do they all want to become martyrs and die in some coup attempt engineered by the CIA? Or would they rather make a few sacrifices and do what they can to nudge their country toward change? I think it's awfully arrogant for anyone in the US to attempt to engineer revolutions and suffering abroad. The sort of self-righteous moral high ground that China bashers use is essentially neoconservative ideology. Yet we are told it's about human rights. Wake up!

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- grandalf 17y ago
  I did not assume you live in the US, btw. I suppose based on your argument we should all shed a tear and not expect anything to change. But then it seems awfully pointless to display ire about something we have no intention of acting on.
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    I deleted my post. Arguing politics on HN is pointless and detracts from the experience. Bye. Enjoy!
    - grandalf 17y ago
      I guess based on your argument it's fairly clear why you have given up on it ;)