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> People who are now holding their dead are a fraction of a fraction of percent in Europe See, that, right there, is the problem. As well as the obvious way i
by rebootthesystem 11y ago
> People who are now holding their dead are a fraction of a fraction of percent in Europe
See, that, right there, is the problem. As well as the obvious way in which other commenters seem to have interpreted my post through their obviously distorted lens.
On the first point, these people are not numbers. They are human beings. They are someone's father, mother, child or sibling. That's where cold statistics fail us. Nobody should tolerate the idea of people being killed by the hundreds every so often in a theater or futbol field and argue that they are "a fraction of a fraction of percent". Sorry, that's just sick.
On the other point. It's interesting that I did not say "let's kill them all". All I said was "The world needs to unite against them, not respect their bullshit religion and ideology." and that was obviously taken by many to mean "let's kill them all". And that is NOT what I said or even implied.
The world truly needs to unite against "them". And "them" means the "crazy as fuck radicalized segment of the Muslim religion". It does NOT mean all Muslim's, the vast majority of whom are normal folks who just want to live a good life and would not hurt anyone any more than the average Christian, Jew or whatever.
Some posters went as far as to ask why I want revenge (with the implication being killing them).
This interpretation of my comment reveals the poster's world view more than anything else.
I did not propose revenge or killing? THEY are seeing this. Not I. I did not say any such thing.
I happen to think the world needs to unite against them (the radical crazies) and segregate them. Give them a chunk of space --a country-- where they can be as fucking crazy as they want. Let them be and maybe we talk to them again in 200 years.
During that time they don't get to benefit from anything the rest of the world has to offer. They get to exist within their own sick rules and enjoy anything they can create. They think women ought not be educated? Fine. They don't get to buy iPhones and computers and cars. Why? Because they are also designed and built by highly educated and capable women and if their ideology looks at them almost as animals then they should not benefit from anything women create anywhere in the world.
In other words, let them live any way they want and under whatever sick rules they want to live under IN THEIR OWN LAND.
And, yes, they don't get to move into any Western country without first proving, way beyond any doubt, they can live by our rules and our social conventions.
And, no, we --meaning nobody-- buys their oil. They can choke on it.
It's really interesting to read a comment where the justification, to paraphrase, is something akin to "the dead are a small percentage of the population". This terrorism problem is much larger than that. And it is the START of a MUCH, MUCH bigger thing. My heritage is one that saw multiple millions of people murdered in a genocide. Genocides don't start with a memo distributed to millions saying "OK, let's do it today". No, crazy sick crap like that starts slowly and grows to a boil, expands and gets out of control.
Some people, like me, today and for a few years are screaming "we have to deal with this now". Others are making ignorant comparisons with the rate of automobile accidents, etc.
The problem with this logic is that automobile accidents are a matter of statistics and probability. There is no intent behind it.
Terrorism has actually changed our world and terrorists would detonate a nuclear bomb in a large city if they ever get their hands of one.
The probability of car accidents in Europe or the US killing six million people in one event or even in one year is exactly zero. The probability of a terrorist group killing millions somewhere is a number greater than zero. That is a huge difference and anyone who does not understand this and insists on comparing to statistics on death by smoking, driving, police shootings or falling off ladders really needs to slow down and think hard about this.
Some of us are looking at this with a degree of desperation because we see what could and is likely to happen if the West does not react with determination. Calling someone's father, mother sibling an insignificant percentage of the population as a justification for not acting to stop this as soon as humanly possible is to, effectively, say it is OK to one day wake up to news on CNN that a nuclear bomb was detonated somewhere in Europe and millions of lives were lost.
Will that convince you? Is that what it will take for you to fully grok what's been going on and where we are headed? That would be sad.
Anyhow, let's not argue. We are not the problem.
- gnaritas 11y ago> On the first point, these people are not numbers. They are human beings. They are someone's father, mother, child or sibling. Right off the bat you lead with a red herring appeal to emotion, you've already left the realm of reasoned debate by starting off a logical fallacy. This is the premise of your argument, it is fallacious, you cannot build a rational argument on a fallacious premise. > That's where cold statistics fail us. Nobody should tolerate the idea of people being killed by the hundreds every so often in a theater or futbol field and argue that they are "a fraction of a fraction of percent". Sorry, that's just sick. It's not sick, it's realistic and rational; statistics aren't failing us, they're showing you the truth that your emotions are blinding you to, that this simply isn't a big problem compared to all the other ways people die in far greater numbers. More people die in mass from plane crashes. Here's the CDC's top 10 leading causes of death in the US. Heart disease: 611,105 Cancer: 584,881 Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 149,205 Accidents (unintentional injuries): 130,557 Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,978 Alzheimer's disease: 84,767 Diabetes: 75,578 Influenza and Pneumonia: 56,979 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 47,112 Intentional self-harm (suicide): 41,149 It is quite clear in context, that terrorism just isn't a real problem, it's not even in an order of magnitude of the realm of a real problem, certainly not one worth destroying liberty for. > The problem with this logic is that automobile accidents are a matter of statistics and probability. There is no intent behind it. That's not a problem with the logic, it's a problem with your emotions caring about intent so much that you ignore how few people are affected. Your reaction is emotional and wildly out of proportion with the size of the problem. Terrorism only changes the world because of the inappropriate reactions of emotionally driven people who happily give up freedoms to power hungry people totally willing to have more control over the populace. The problem isn't terrorism, the problem is your reaction to it, which is the goal of terrorism. By being so emotional, you are quite literally letting the terrorist win as this is their goal. If you want to beat terrorism, stop being terrorized, suppress your emotions, and use reason instead; that's how you beat terrorism. Terrorism is simply crime, you cannot eradicate crime and your attempts to do so make the world worse for those who currently enjoy freedom. It is the actions of those like you, in your attempts to "protect" people, that makes terrorism worse. As long as there are people, there will be terrorism, accept it, stop overreacting to it, and you'll see it's not the big problem your emotions make it out to be.