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This is fantastic news! This is the best news I've heard in a while. I have friends who don't like Muslims because "Muslim = terrorism". I've always struggled t

This is fantastic news! This is the best news I've heard in a while. I have friends who don't like Muslims because "Muslim = terrorism". I've always struggled to argue the lack of denouncing terrorism by Muslim leaders. While there is protest by the Muslim community, the message is never driven home. I also want to add that some disgusting people posted some hateful messages toward all Muslims on Al Jazeera. It just re-enforces my beliefs that trash comes from all religions and genders.

ceejayoz 11y ago
Let's not pretend this is anything but the Saudis looking out for their own interests. They've been funding and supporting hardline terrorist groups for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saud... They just don't want ISIS targeting the House of Saud as their next victim. There are much better Muslim role models than this.
ern 11y ago
The Saudis were not the only ones who condemned ISIS. Hundreds of Moslem clerics signed an open letter condemning ISIS in 2014: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is-an-offence-to-islam-says-international-coalition-of-major-islamic-scholars-9756255.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is-... http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com
crusso 11y ago
This is fantastic news! Notice the article is over a year old. It's hard to see if it has had any impact whatsoever on the situation.
- ern 11y ago
  Maybe it deterred a few donations to ISIS, or prevented some recruitment. Regardless, it certainly does help belie claims, oft repeated, that the silent majority of Moslems tacitly support Islamist terrorism, or are silent in its face.
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    Saudi Arabia has a very well documented history of supporting (not just tacitly) Islamic terrorism. They just don't like groups with territorial ambitions that include their own lands.
  - dlss 11y ago
    > Regardless, it certainly does help belie claims, oft repeated, that the silent majority of Moslems tacitly support Islamist terrorism, or are silent in its face. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism#Polls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terro... might be a better source to cite. * In France, 19% of muslims think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets can sometimes be justified, and 6% thought it could be justified often. * In the UK: 12% sometimes, and 3% often * In Egypt: 20% sometimes, and 8% often * In Nigeria: 38% sometimes, and 8% often So you're right that it's not the silent majority. It's the silent 25-46%.
    - ceejayoz 11y ago
      The "sometimes" there is a pretty big qualifier. I run across a lot of Americans who think civilian casualties are justifiable in some situations, like hitting a terrorist with a drone when there are civilians nearby. From the link you cite: > John Esposito, using poll data from Gallup, wrote in 2008 that Muslims and Americans were equally likely to reject violence against civilians. He also found that those Muslims who support violence against civilians are no more religious than Muslims who do not.
      - dlss 11y ago
        I would think American acceptance of civilian casualties would be contingent on agreeing that the war was justified, and I'll remind you the survey data we are talking about is specifically in reference to terrorism. To grab a specific example from that page: > almost one in four British Muslims believe that the 7/7 attacks on London were justified Which you can read about here if you're not familiar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings > On the morning of Thursday, 7 July 2005, four Islamist extremists separately detonated three bombs in quick succession aboard London Underground trains across the city and, later, a fourth on a double-decker bus in Tavistock Square. Fifty-two civilians were killed and over 700 more were injured in the attacks, the United Kingdom's worst terrorist incident since the 1988 Lockerbie bombing as well as the country's first ever Islamist suicide attack. Your counterargument that American's feel similarly to unintended casualties in war when targeting enemy combatants is very very weak. Who were the enemy combatants on the three subway trains? Who were the enemy combatants on the double-decker bus? To put that another way: a large portion of muslims seeing terrorists in the same light that Americans see the US Armed forces means they approve of terrorists.
obituary_latte 11y ago
This is a strange post. First, the original posting is dated 2014 - almost 2 years ago. Second, you offer really nothing to defend the ideologues of the violent aspect of Islam that seem to be so rampant these days. Trash can come from all religions. Often does. Should you really be a true believer of Islam, your focus should not be converting us non believers of your virtues, but instead convincing your fellow believers that violence is more likely to sway non believers in the opposite direction than is intended. Edit: to the downvoters; I'd love to discuss how and why I am wrong. I'm likely wrong, admittedly, but would appreciate the opportunity to learn why.

ceejayoz 11y ago

Let's not pretend this is anything but the Saudis looking out for their own interests. They've been funding and supporting hardline terrorist groups for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saud... They just don't want ISIS targeting the House of Saud as their next victim. There are much better Muslim role models than this.

ern 11y ago

The Saudis were not the only ones who condemned ISIS. Hundreds of Moslem clerics signed an open letter condemning ISIS in 2014: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is-an-offence-to-islam-says-international-coalition-of-major-islamic-scholars-9756255.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is-... http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com

crusso 11y ago

This is fantastic news! Notice the article is over a year old. It's hard to see if it has had any impact whatsoever on the situation.

ern 11y ago
Maybe it deterred a few donations to ISIS, or prevented some recruitment. Regardless, it certainly does help belie claims, oft repeated, that the silent majority of Moslems tacitly support Islamist terrorism, or are silent in its face.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  Saudi Arabia has a very well documented history of supporting (not just tacitly) Islamic terrorism. They just don't like groups with territorial ambitions that include their own lands.
- dlss 11y ago
  > Regardless, it certainly does help belie claims, oft repeated, that the silent majority of Moslems tacitly support Islamist terrorism, or are silent in its face. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism#Polls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terro... might be a better source to cite. * In France, 19% of muslims think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets can sometimes be justified, and 6% thought it could be justified often. * In the UK: 12% sometimes, and 3% often * In Egypt: 20% sometimes, and 8% often * In Nigeria: 38% sometimes, and 8% often So you're right that it's not the silent majority. It's the silent 25-46%.
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    The "sometimes" there is a pretty big qualifier. I run across a lot of Americans who think civilian casualties are justifiable in some situations, like hitting a terrorist with a drone when there are civilians nearby. From the link you cite: > John Esposito, using poll data from Gallup, wrote in 2008 that Muslims and Americans were equally likely to reject violence against civilians. He also found that those Muslims who support violence against civilians are no more religious than Muslims who do not.
    - dlss 11y ago
      I would think American acceptance of civilian casualties would be contingent on agreeing that the war was justified, and I'll remind you the survey data we are talking about is specifically in reference to terrorism. To grab a specific example from that page: > almost one in four British Muslims believe that the 7/7 attacks on London were justified Which you can read about here if you're not familiar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings > On the morning of Thursday, 7 July 2005, four Islamist extremists separately detonated three bombs in quick succession aboard London Underground trains across the city and, later, a fourth on a double-decker bus in Tavistock Square. Fifty-two civilians were killed and over 700 more were injured in the attacks, the United Kingdom's worst terrorist incident since the 1988 Lockerbie bombing as well as the country's first ever Islamist suicide attack. Your counterargument that American's feel similarly to unintended casualties in war when targeting enemy combatants is very very weak. Who were the enemy combatants on the three subway trains? Who were the enemy combatants on the double-decker bus? To put that another way: a large portion of muslims seeing terrorists in the same light that Americans see the US Armed forces means they approve of terrorists.

obituary_latte 11y ago

This is a strange post. First, the original posting is dated 2014 - almost 2 years ago. Second, you offer really nothing to defend the ideologues of the violent aspect of Islam that seem to be so rampant these days. Trash can come from all religions. Often does. Should you really be a true believer of Islam, your focus should not be converting us non believers of your virtues, but instead convincing your fellow believers that violence is more likely to sway non believers in the opposite direction than is intended. Edit: to the downvoters; I'd love to discuss how and why I am wrong. I'm likely wrong, admittedly, but would appreciate the opportunity to learn why.