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> It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. I could copy/paste what I said before about loud p

> It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. I could copy/paste what I said before about loud people being loud and it would be just as valid. > As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. How many people read that post and chose not to downvote? This goes back to what I said before about loud people who are overly sensitive. Most people read it and passed on by. > Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? When people realize declaring support will give them a faster queue, they'll start declaring support and then refuse to take the role using the same tactics. The duo's will still attempt to force the roles they want and exhibit the same behavior as they are currently. People's internet will still crap out and those 4 players will still be forced to play it out. It will have an effect, but not nearly as large an effect as you're trying to imply. They need to give the group as a whole more power to deal with the bad actors. > I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented. That must mean it doesn't happen, right? As for Loss Prevented, it has to get extremely bad before they use that. I've seen too many instances of consistent disconnects in games over hours and days where no Loss Prevented was given. Loss Prevented is, by definition, late to the party and their last resort for the most dire of situations. Any discussion about how to deal with things such as random disconnects by players cannot include Loss Prevention as a possible solution.

Natsu 11y ago
> YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. And whoever downvoted you. You may not realize it, but you read like someone who got banned for raging at others. It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. And with that said, I'm out. Have a good evening.
- mreiland 11y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 You've been unfair this entire conversation, but you've also been very loud about your feelings.
  - cjslep 11y ago
    I just think the parent is solidly entrenched in the prevailing LoL community mindset. Surprisingly, it hasn't changed much from 2010. I've tried to spell my perspective out in a sibling thread; it may overlap some of the points you were trying to make.
    - mreiland 11y ago
      He is. It's been my experience that a large part of the league community has this strange pride about navigating all the bullshit successfully, as if having more time to play league is an accomplishment. If Riot would concentrate on making the ranked experience less frustrating for people it would go a long way towards tamping down on a lot of the negativity. The most frustrating part is that I like the game a lot, but I flat can't put in the amount of time required due to the trolls and such.
- cjslep 11y ago
  > It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. To be fair, that reason right there is the entire reason early groups of human beings -- me, many of my friends, and many strangers -- fled League of Legends. Coming out of beta, that was the only defense a person could take. And it stayed like that for way too long. People have human limits -- to embody this self-defense of "just ignore it" is limiting Riot's player pool to only those who have the mental and emotional fortitude of a machine. Surprise: people are not machines. Taking the humanity out of the individual has been, and still sounds like, the root of the bad behavior in the LoL community.
  - Natsu 11y ago
    Taking revenge in kind does not work, it only leads to a chain of people who feel entitled to snowball the problem, because when you respond, you're helping ruin the game for eight people because of one. People who cannot keep the peace when someone trolls are are part of the toxicity, as well as victims thereof. The proper way to deal with it in LOL report and move on, not making the game worse for the eight people who had nothing to do with it. There's nothing to "defend" yourself from: they're words, you're not being "attacked" that's ridiculous hyperbole.
    - cjslep 11y ago
      > Taking revenge in kind does not work Nowhere did I say to take revenge. > People who cannot keep the peace when someone trolls are are part of the toxicity Nowhere did I say to go up in arms and start a mob war, either. Being silent and "just ignoring it" is not the same as keeping the peace. I agree with your notion that feeding trolls is also bad, but because people are humans and not machines I have to disagree that they are part of the toxicity. They are a symptom of it; a side-effect. Curing that symptom is all that Riot really wanted to do in the early days, which is why I quickly abandoned the community. I really do not think my original point was properly conveyed so let me clarify further: There is someone being negative. That is the fundamental problem that needs to get solved[0]. As I mentioned before, Riot's stand has always been to "just ignore it" or "don't be a symptom". So: > The proper way to deal with it in LOL report and move on Is really Riot's sentiment from 2010: "Just ignore it". "Don't feed the troll". "Don't become a symptom of the toxicity". These statements are equivalent to saying: "Players are expected to have the mental and emotional fortitude of a machine". Tough shit if a guy instalocks Ez and calls mid, and tough shit if a teammate purposely feeds kills. Under the "Just ignore it" doctrine, there is no recourse during the negative experience. Sure, after ruining the experience the negative person could be reported. But its no surprise there are people that would rather not have to put up with the bad experience in the first place. > not making the game worse for the eight people who had nothing to do with it. That right there is what is wrong fundamentally. The implication is that the game is already bad because of one negative player. See [0] above. So when I originally replied to the comment: > It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. I was not talking about revenge in the sense you were describing it. League has a huge community and therefore huge peer pressure. Bite back by leveraging that peer pressure for good: getting people to encourage each other to try new characters when they queue for a week straight with the same character, or encourage when making good cooperative plays, or not letting people instalock multiple games in a row, or being able to boot people back into queue if being obnoxious in champ select, or having mods review game chat while games are going on, or creating a culture of support by giving probationary people pink names and making it cool to encourage them when they display positive behavior. There are a ton of ideas like this, and they were there in 2010. But fundamentally, Riot seems OK with that first negative player. That low bar is why I do not play. > There's nothing to "defend" yourself from: they're words, you're not being "attacked" that's ridiculous hyperbole. No, it is not ridiculous hyperbole because that is not what I am saying. Please, quit the attempts of putting up a strawman argument. But since you (trollishly?) went there, it is clear that the power of words may be lost for you. For other people, words can be emotionally charged. It is unreasonable to ask others to also trivialize their emotions (See the theme of my posts?). If I am a tank and I see a teammate say: "Our tank is a fucking gringo cracker nigger faggot slut bitch for feeding their carry", that carries some emotionally charged weight to it. If you take anything away from my post it is this: That first negative player is the root of the problem. Players are humans: they will sometimes feed back as a symptom. Leverage the players' humanity for good to fix the root problem instead of trying to turn them into emotion-less robots fixing the symptom.

Natsu 11y ago

> YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. And whoever downvoted you. You may not realize it, but you read like someone who got banned for raging at others. It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. And with that said, I'm out. Have a good evening.

mreiland 11y ago
https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 You've been unfair this entire conversation, but you've also been very loud about your feelings.
- cjslep 11y ago
  I just think the parent is solidly entrenched in the prevailing LoL community mindset. Surprisingly, it hasn't changed much from 2010. I've tried to spell my perspective out in a sibling thread; it may overlap some of the points you were trying to make.
  - mreiland 11y ago
    He is. It's been my experience that a large part of the league community has this strange pride about navigating all the bullshit successfully, as if having more time to play league is an accomplishment. If Riot would concentrate on making the ranked experience less frustrating for people it would go a long way towards tamping down on a lot of the negativity. The most frustrating part is that I like the game a lot, but I flat can't put in the amount of time required due to the trolls and such.
cjslep 11y ago
> It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. To be fair, that reason right there is the entire reason early groups of human beings -- me, many of my friends, and many strangers -- fled League of Legends. Coming out of beta, that was the only defense a person could take. And it stayed like that for way too long. People have human limits -- to embody this self-defense of "just ignore it" is limiting Riot's player pool to only those who have the mental and emotional fortitude of a machine. Surprise: people are not machines. Taking the humanity out of the individual has been, and still sounds like, the root of the bad behavior in the LoL community.
- Natsu 11y ago
  Taking revenge in kind does not work, it only leads to a chain of people who feel entitled to snowball the problem, because when you respond, you're helping ruin the game for eight people because of one. People who cannot keep the peace when someone trolls are are part of the toxicity, as well as victims thereof. The proper way to deal with it in LOL report and move on, not making the game worse for the eight people who had nothing to do with it. There's nothing to "defend" yourself from: they're words, you're not being "attacked" that's ridiculous hyperbole.
  - cjslep 11y ago
    > Taking revenge in kind does not work Nowhere did I say to take revenge. > People who cannot keep the peace when someone trolls are are part of the toxicity Nowhere did I say to go up in arms and start a mob war, either. Being silent and "just ignoring it" is not the same as keeping the peace. I agree with your notion that feeding trolls is also bad, but because people are humans and not machines I have to disagree that they are part of the toxicity. They are a symptom of it; a side-effect. Curing that symptom is all that Riot really wanted to do in the early days, which is why I quickly abandoned the community. I really do not think my original point was properly conveyed so let me clarify further: There is someone being negative. That is the fundamental problem that needs to get solved[0]. As I mentioned before, Riot's stand has always been to "just ignore it" or "don't be a symptom". So: > The proper way to deal with it in LOL report and move on Is really Riot's sentiment from 2010: "Just ignore it". "Don't feed the troll". "Don't become a symptom of the toxicity". These statements are equivalent to saying: "Players are expected to have the mental and emotional fortitude of a machine". Tough shit if a guy instalocks Ez and calls mid, and tough shit if a teammate purposely feeds kills. Under the "Just ignore it" doctrine, there is no recourse during the negative experience. Sure, after ruining the experience the negative person could be reported. But its no surprise there are people that would rather not have to put up with the bad experience in the first place. > not making the game worse for the eight people who had nothing to do with it. That right there is what is wrong fundamentally. The implication is that the game is already bad because of one negative player. See [0] above. So when I originally replied to the comment: > It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. I was not talking about revenge in the sense you were describing it. League has a huge community and therefore huge peer pressure. Bite back by leveraging that peer pressure for good: getting people to encourage each other to try new characters when they queue for a week straight with the same character, or encourage when making good cooperative plays, or not letting people instalock multiple games in a row, or being able to boot people back into queue if being obnoxious in champ select, or having mods review game chat while games are going on, or creating a culture of support by giving probationary people pink names and making it cool to encourage them when they display positive behavior. There are a ton of ideas like this, and they were there in 2010. But fundamentally, Riot seems OK with that first negative player. That low bar is why I do not play. > There's nothing to "defend" yourself from: they're words, you're not being "attacked" that's ridiculous hyperbole. No, it is not ridiculous hyperbole because that is not what I am saying. Please, quit the attempts of putting up a strawman argument. But since you (trollishly?) went there, it is clear that the power of words may be lost for you. For other people, words can be emotionally charged. It is unreasonable to ask others to also trivialize their emotions (See the theme of my posts?). If I am a tank and I see a teammate say: "Our tank is a fucking gringo cracker nigger faggot slut bitch for feeding their carry", that carries some emotionally charged weight to it. If you take anything away from my post it is this: That first negative player is the root of the problem. Players are humans: they will sometimes feed back as a symptom. Leverage the players' humanity for good to fix the root problem instead of trying to turn them into emotion-less robots fixing the symptom.