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> The difference between you and me is I don't view disagreement, even strong disagreement, as toxic behavior. It's not disagreement, it's how you express it (

by Natsu 11y ago

> The difference between you and me is I don't view disagreement, even strong disagreement, as toxic behavior. It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). I cannot agree that it's a "jab" to call someone on expressing themselves in a negative way, though, nor do I want a rise out of you--only self-awareness. It's true that I edited that in, my bad for not calling that out. As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. They are trying to get rid of some of the frustration with ranked by making people call two roles and changing champ select. They have also studied the negativity regarding this. What they haven't done is copy DOTA2's leaver system. > But you know what doesn't roll off my back? Having someone announce in champ select "mid or feed", or "me and X duo bot or feed" Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented.

mreiland 11y ago
> It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. I could copy/paste what I said before about loud people being loud and it would be just as valid. > As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. How many people read that post and chose not to downvote? This goes back to what I said before about loud people who are overly sensitive. Most people read it and passed on by. > Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? When people realize declaring support will give them a faster queue, they'll start declaring support and then refuse to take the role using the same tactics. The duo's will still attempt to force the roles they want and exhibit the same behavior as they are currently. People's internet will still crap out and those 4 players will still be forced to play it out. It will have an effect, but not nearly as large an effect as you're trying to imply. They need to give the group as a whole more power to deal with the bad actors. > I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented. That must mean it doesn't happen, right? As for Loss Prevented, it has to get extremely bad before they use that. I've seen too many instances of consistent disconnects in games over hours and days where no Loss Prevented was given. Loss Prevented is, by definition, late to the party and their last resort for the most dire of situations. Any discussion about how to deal with things such as random disconnects by players cannot include Loss Prevention as a possible solution.
- Natsu 11y ago
  > YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. And whoever downvoted you. You may not realize it, but you read like someone who got banned for raging at others. It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. And with that said, I'm out. Have a good evening.
  - mreiland 11y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 You've been unfair this entire conversation, but you've also been very loud about your feelings.
    - cjslep 11y ago
      I just think the parent is solidly entrenched in the prevailing LoL community mindset. Surprisingly, it hasn't changed much from 2010. I've tried to spell my perspective out in a sibling thread; it may overlap some of the points you were trying to make.
      - mreiland 11y ago
        He is. It's been my experience that a large part of the league community has this strange pride about navigating all the bullshit successfully, as if having more time to play league is an accomplishment. If Riot would concentrate on making the ranked experience less frustrating for people it would go a long way towards tamping down on a lot of the negativity. The most frustrating part is that I like the game a lot, but I flat can't put in the amount of time required due to the trolls and such.
  - cjslep 11y ago
    > It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. To be fair, that reason right there is the entire reason early groups of human beings -- me, many of my friends, and many strangers -- fled League of Legends. Coming out of beta, that was the only defense a person could take. And it stayed like that for way too long. People have human limits -- to embody this self-defense of "just ignore it" is limiting Riot's player pool to only those who have the mental and emotional fortitude of a machine. Surprise: people are not machines. Taking the humanity out of the individual has been, and still sounds like, the root of the bad behavior in the LoL community.

by Natsu 11y ago

mreiland 11y ago

> It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. I could copy/paste what I said before about loud people being loud and it would be just as valid. > As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. How many people read that post and chose not to downvote? This goes back to what I said before about loud people who are overly sensitive. Most people read it and passed on by. > Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? When people realize declaring support will give them a faster queue, they'll start declaring support and then refuse to take the role using the same tactics. The duo's will still attempt to force the roles they want and exhibit the same behavior as they are currently. People's internet will still crap out and those 4 players will still be forced to play it out. It will have an effect, but not nearly as large an effect as you're trying to imply. They need to give the group as a whole more power to deal with the bad actors. > I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented. That must mean it doesn't happen, right? As for Loss Prevented, it has to get extremely bad before they use that. I've seen too many instances of consistent disconnects in games over hours and days where no Loss Prevented was given. Loss Prevented is, by definition, late to the party and their last resort for the most dire of situations. Any discussion about how to deal with things such as random disconnects by players cannot include Loss Prevention as a possible solution.

Natsu 11y ago
> YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. And whoever downvoted you. You may not realize it, but you read like someone who got banned for raging at others. It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. And with that said, I'm out. Have a good evening.
- mreiland 11y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=empathy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 You've been unfair this entire conversation, but you've also been very loud about your feelings.
  - cjslep 11y ago
    I just think the parent is solidly entrenched in the prevailing LoL community mindset. Surprisingly, it hasn't changed much from 2010. I've tried to spell my perspective out in a sibling thread; it may overlap some of the points you were trying to make.
    - mreiland 11y ago
      He is. It's been my experience that a large part of the league community has this strange pride about navigating all the bullshit successfully, as if having more time to play league is an accomplishment. If Riot would concentrate on making the ranked experience less frustrating for people it would go a long way towards tamping down on a lot of the negativity. The most frustrating part is that I like the game a lot, but I flat can't put in the amount of time required due to the trolls and such.
- cjslep 11y ago
  > It doesn't matter who started it, you just have to not bite. To be fair, that reason right there is the entire reason early groups of human beings -- me, many of my friends, and many strangers -- fled League of Legends. Coming out of beta, that was the only defense a person could take. And it stayed like that for way too long. People have human limits -- to embody this self-defense of "just ignore it" is limiting Riot's player pool to only those who have the mental and emotional fortitude of a machine. Surprise: people are not machines. Taking the humanity out of the individual has been, and still sounds like, the root of the bad behavior in the LoL community.