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The difference between you and me is I don't view disagreement, even strong disagreement, as toxic behavior. Which is the other part of the community that frus

The difference between you and me is I don't view disagreement, even strong disagreement, as toxic behavior. Which is the other part of the community that frustrates me. Riot has spent a lot of time worrying about "chat toxicity" when in fact it's a non-issue due to the mute feature. They've put all this effort into machine learning so they can start banning people automatically for things people find offensive (IIRC, one of their touted successes was folks in asian countries using last names as an insult. The system learned that was offensive and started suspending people automatically for doing it). Imagine if all that effort was instead put into social engineering to help tamp down on people's frustrations with ranked. But it won't be, because ultimately the really loud people are those like you who think disagreement or criticism is tantamount to being toxic (instead of demanding that they change the ranked system to put less power in the hands of the assholes). And yes, I did catch that you edited in that jab about me being toxic after the fact, did you seriously think you were going to get a rise out of me? The truth is I've been playing multiplayer games since the old MUD days before Ultima Online and Everquest were ever a thing. Back when colored text was considered a luxury and people would switch clients based upon the speed of the triggers (especially for pk). I've been involved in enough communities that someone calling me a bad name on the internet rolls off my back. But you know what doesn't roll off my back? Having someone announce in champ select "mid or feed", or "me and X duo bot or feed" and then watching everyone else forced into the following decisions: 1) give them what they want, 2) refuse and risk wasting 2 hours of your time (an extra game to make up for the loss) 3) dodging and being forced to sit out for 30 minutes. Because riot doesn't give them a 4th option 4) opt into giving up the game early. Here's how poorly designed Riot's ranked system is. This is the internet. This means people will have disconnection issues. It's normal. If someone fails to connect to the game (from minute 0), Riot forces the other 4 players to continue playing the game. If any of those 4 players leave they risk getting suspended or banned, and no matter what they do, they take a loss on their ranked record. They automatically lose 2 hours of their life because someone's internet crapped out. Of course people find that shit frustrating. A primary reason Riot has so many shitty people acting shitty in their system is because the design of their system gives those bad actors all of the power. For anyone who is truly curious, watch this video. This man is spot on, and if you doubt it, keep in mind that I stopped playing the game specifically for the reasons this man spoke about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UfO7qOHx5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UfO7qOHx5M

Natsu 11y ago
> The difference between you and me is I don't view disagreement, even strong disagreement, as toxic behavior. It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). I cannot agree that it's a "jab" to call someone on expressing themselves in a negative way, though, nor do I want a rise out of you--only self-awareness. It's true that I edited that in, my bad for not calling that out. As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. They are trying to get rid of some of the frustration with ranked by making people call two roles and changing champ select. They have also studied the negativity regarding this. What they haven't done is copy DOTA2's leaver system. > But you know what doesn't roll off my back? Having someone announce in champ select "mid or feed", or "me and X duo bot or feed" Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented.
- mreiland 11y ago
  > It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. I could copy/paste what I said before about loud people being loud and it would be just as valid. > As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. How many people read that post and chose not to downvote? This goes back to what I said before about loud people who are overly sensitive. Most people read it and passed on by. > Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? When people realize declaring support will give them a faster queue, they'll start declaring support and then refuse to take the role using the same tactics. The duo's will still attempt to force the roles they want and exhibit the same behavior as they are currently. People's internet will still crap out and those 4 players will still be forced to play it out. It will have an effect, but not nearly as large an effect as you're trying to imply. They need to give the group as a whole more power to deal with the bad actors. > I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented. That must mean it doesn't happen, right? As for Loss Prevented, it has to get extremely bad before they use that. I've seen too many instances of consistent disconnects in games over hours and days where no Loss Prevented was given. Loss Prevented is, by definition, late to the party and their last resort for the most dire of situations. Any discussion about how to deal with things such as random disconnects by players cannot include Loss Prevention as a possible solution.

Natsu 11y ago

> The difference between you and me is I don't view disagreement, even strong disagreement, as toxic behavior. It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). I cannot agree that it's a "jab" to call someone on expressing themselves in a negative way, though, nor do I want a rise out of you--only self-awareness. It's true that I edited that in, my bad for not calling that out. As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. They are trying to get rid of some of the frustration with ranked by making people call two roles and changing champ select. They have also studied the negativity regarding this. What they haven't done is copy DOTA2's leaver system. > But you know what doesn't roll off my back? Having someone announce in champ select "mid or feed", or "me and X duo bot or feed" Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented.

mreiland 11y ago
> It's not disagreement, it's how you express it ("crock"). YOU don't like how I expressed my disagreement. I could copy/paste what I said before about loud people being loud and it would be just as valid. > As you can see, you were downvoted for that and neither of us is able to downvote the other. How many people read that post and chose not to downvote? This goes back to what I said before about loud people who are overly sensitive. Most people read it and passed on by. > Does this mean you haven't seen the new season 6 champ select yet? When people realize declaring support will give them a faster queue, they'll start declaring support and then refuse to take the role using the same tactics. The duo's will still attempt to force the roles they want and exhibit the same behavior as they are currently. People's internet will still crap out and those 4 players will still be forced to play it out. It will have an effect, but not nearly as large an effect as you're trying to imply. They need to give the group as a whole more power to deal with the bad actors. > I honestly don't see that many DCs, especially in ranked. People get called on it if they play when their connection cannot support it and when there have been network outages, Riot turns on Loss Prevented. That must mean it doesn't happen, right? As for Loss Prevented, it has to get extremely bad before they use that. I've seen too many instances of consistent disconnects in games over hours and days where no Loss Prevented was given. Loss Prevented is, by definition, late to the party and their last resort for the most dire of situations. Any discussion about how to deal with things such as random disconnects by players cannot include Loss Prevention as a possible solution.