5 ms·

Google vs. Apple

31 points by k7d 17y ago

gtzi 17y ago
With so many markets they commonly target, and with such a great success one of them has in each market, I cant help but wonder what the implications of a merger would be. Search & hardware, design & algos, high-end & low-end, who could compete with them if they join forces?
- nailer 17y ago
  Apple has great design skills, but they're still in the desktop era. There's still no compelling online version of iWork, iTunes has been eaten by Spotify in mindshare in Europe, the iPhone still requires syncing. I don't think Google wants or needs any of those pre-internet products.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - DLWormwood 17y ago
    > the iPhone still requires syncing True, but for how much longer? Already the Cocoa Touch platform supports application installs via WiFi and can use MobileMe for syncing info via "the cloud" instead of a hosting computer. The only bit left is the media library... (and you can buy the smaller stuff like songs and music videos via the phone/iPod even then.) > Apple has great design skills, but they're still in the desktop era. As a Mac user for two decades now, it seems to me that Apple is in the process of leaving us behind. The current OS X desktop UI is made more for Windows switchers, and Apple's may-or-may-not exist tablet is expected to continue distancing itself from the desktop flavor of the OS. (I've been doing experimental development for Cocoa Touch over the last couple of months, and I can tell you that despite the "same" language and API, the programming and security enviroments are completely different from the historical desktop experience.)
joubert 17y ago
I don't know what experience the author of this matrix has in programming, but Infinite Loop's API's have a noticeably higher degree of engineering than any other API / toolchain I've used.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "but Infinite Loop's API's have a noticeably higher degree of engineering than any other API / toolchain I've used." Any specific examples?
  - tewks 17y ago
    The documentation is generally excellent. At the very least, this demonstrates both respect and sympathy for other engineers who need to use an API. Often, it also correlates to a well engineered product underneath.
    - jamesbritt 17y ago
      "At the very least, this demonstrates both respect and sympathy for other engineers who need to use an API. " Sympathy? As when an API is sort of hacky or kludgey or ad hoc? "Often, it also correlates to a well engineered product underneath." When I did Windows development I marveled at the amount and quality of detailed docs available for the platform. In some cases the underlying each was well-engineered, But there's no real correlation. The docs existed because a company really wanted people to develop for their platform. Docs (or lack of) say more about business than engineering.
- haberman 17y ago
  The QuickTime API in C is horrific. It requires tons of unsafe-looking casts and even memcpy()-like operations between types. QuickTime Kit (an Objective C API) was released with QuickTime 7, which can only be better. Here are excerpts from some code I wrote back in the day to import audio files into Audacity using QuickTime: // GetMediaSampleDescription takes a SampleDescriptionHandle, but apparently // if the media is a sound (which presumably we know it is) then it will treat // it as a SoundDescriptionHandle (which in addition to the format of single // samples, also tells you sample rate, number of channels, etc.) // Pretty messed up interface, if you ask me. SoundDescriptionHandle soundDescription = (SoundDescriptionHandle)NewHandle(0); GetMediaSampleDescription(mMedia, 1, (SampleDescriptionHandle)soundDescription); // If this is a compressed format, it may have out-of-stream compression // parameters that need to be passed to the sound converter. We retrieve // these in the form of an audio atom. To do this, however we have to // get the data by way of a handle, then copy it manually from the handle to // the atom. These interfaces get worse all the time! Handle decompressionParamsHandle = NewHandle(0); AudioFormatAtomPtr decompressionParamsAtom = NULL; err = GetSoundDescriptionExtension(soundDescription, &decompressionParamsHandle, siDecompressionParams); if(err == noErr) { // this stream has decompression parameters. copy from the handle to the atom. int paramsSize = GetHandleSize(decompressionParamsHandle); HLock(decompressionParamsHandle); decompressionParamsAtom = (AudioFormatAtomPtr)NewPtr(paramsSize); BlockMoveData(*decompressionParamsHandle, decompressionParamsAtom, paramsSize); HUnlock(decompressionParamsHandle); }
dirtyaura 17y ago
Although Google uses data-driven decisions to optimize existing products like the search UI, it's a misconception that strategic decisions of new products and services would be done in a same way. Of course not. They are made in a similar way that every other human organization does it: based on the intuition and knowledge of the decision makers.
gabrielroth 17y ago
'Think different' isn't a motto, it's a slogan. One's for people inside the company, the other's for people outside.
- jpeterson 17y ago
  What's a motto?
  - sundarurfriend 17y ago
    >> One's for people inside the company That one, I'd venture.
- blackcadillac 17y ago
  Same thing goes for Coca-Cola and the happiness factory...
martythemaniak 17y ago
Although its a bit tongue-in-cheek, it really shows why Apple investors pay so much attention to Jobs' health. Apple is a very centralized and secretive organization with the appearance that all important decisions, from strategic to design decisions, going through Jobs. No wonder people wonder if Apple can keep being great if he leaves.
MikeCapone 17y ago
Did they pull the "Mercedes SL55" reference out of their asses, or are people at Apple (or Steve?) really known for driving those?
- dchest 17y ago
  http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+mercedes http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+mercedes
jganetsk 17y ago
Date Founded (1998 vs 1976) is listed as a difference, but really, it's more of a similarity. The "new" Apple, with Steve Jobs at the helm, was founded at about the same time as Google.
diggboard 17y ago
Apple is a fruit, Google is a number?
- ajross 17y ago
  Googol is a number. Google is what Cookie Monster's eyes do.

31 points by k7d 17y ago

gtzi 17y ago

With so many markets they commonly target, and with such a great success one of them has in each market, I cant help but wonder what the implications of a merger would be. Search & hardware, design & algos, high-end & low-end, who could compete with them if they join forces?

nailer 17y ago
Apple has great design skills, but they're still in the desktop era. There's still no compelling online version of iWork, iTunes has been eaten by Spotify in mindshare in Europe, the iPhone still requires syncing. I don't think Google wants or needs any of those pre-internet products.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- DLWormwood 17y ago
  > the iPhone still requires syncing True, but for how much longer? Already the Cocoa Touch platform supports application installs via WiFi and can use MobileMe for syncing info via "the cloud" instead of a hosting computer. The only bit left is the media library... (and you can buy the smaller stuff like songs and music videos via the phone/iPod even then.) > Apple has great design skills, but they're still in the desktop era. As a Mac user for two decades now, it seems to me that Apple is in the process of leaving us behind. The current OS X desktop UI is made more for Windows switchers, and Apple's may-or-may-not exist tablet is expected to continue distancing itself from the desktop flavor of the OS. (I've been doing experimental development for Cocoa Touch over the last couple of months, and I can tell you that despite the "same" language and API, the programming and security enviroments are completely different from the historical desktop experience.)

joubert 17y ago

I don't know what experience the author of this matrix has in programming, but Infinite Loop's API's have a noticeably higher degree of engineering than any other API / toolchain I've used.

plinkplonk 17y ago
"but Infinite Loop's API's have a noticeably higher degree of engineering than any other API / toolchain I've used." Any specific examples?
- tewks 17y ago
  The documentation is generally excellent. At the very least, this demonstrates both respect and sympathy for other engineers who need to use an API. Often, it also correlates to a well engineered product underneath.
  - jamesbritt 17y ago
    "At the very least, this demonstrates both respect and sympathy for other engineers who need to use an API. " Sympathy? As when an API is sort of hacky or kludgey or ad hoc? "Often, it also correlates to a well engineered product underneath." When I did Windows development I marveled at the amount and quality of detailed docs available for the platform. In some cases the underlying each was well-engineered, But there's no real correlation. The docs existed because a company really wanted people to develop for their platform. Docs (or lack of) say more about business than engineering.
haberman 17y ago
The QuickTime API in C is horrific. It requires tons of unsafe-looking casts and even memcpy()-like operations between types. QuickTime Kit (an Objective C API) was released with QuickTime 7, which can only be better. Here are excerpts from some code I wrote back in the day to import audio files into Audacity using QuickTime: // GetMediaSampleDescription takes a SampleDescriptionHandle, but apparently // if the media is a sound (which presumably we know it is) then it will treat // it as a SoundDescriptionHandle (which in addition to the format of single // samples, also tells you sample rate, number of channels, etc.) // Pretty messed up interface, if you ask me. SoundDescriptionHandle soundDescription = (SoundDescriptionHandle)NewHandle(0); GetMediaSampleDescription(mMedia, 1, (SampleDescriptionHandle)soundDescription); // If this is a compressed format, it may have out-of-stream compression // parameters that need to be passed to the sound converter. We retrieve // these in the form of an audio atom. To do this, however we have to // get the data by way of a handle, then copy it manually from the handle to // the atom. These interfaces get worse all the time! Handle decompressionParamsHandle = NewHandle(0); AudioFormatAtomPtr decompressionParamsAtom = NULL; err = GetSoundDescriptionExtension(soundDescription, &decompressionParamsHandle, siDecompressionParams); if(err == noErr) { // this stream has decompression parameters. copy from the handle to the atom. int paramsSize = GetHandleSize(decompressionParamsHandle); HLock(decompressionParamsHandle); decompressionParamsAtom = (AudioFormatAtomPtr)NewPtr(paramsSize); BlockMoveData(*decompressionParamsHandle, decompressionParamsAtom, paramsSize); HUnlock(decompressionParamsHandle); }

dirtyaura 17y ago

Although Google uses data-driven decisions to optimize existing products like the search UI, it's a misconception that strategic decisions of new products and services would be done in a same way. Of course not. They are made in a similar way that every other human organization does it: based on the intuition and knowledge of the decision makers.

gabrielroth 17y ago

'Think different' isn't a motto, it's a slogan. One's for people inside the company, the other's for people outside.

jpeterson 17y ago
What's a motto?
- sundarurfriend 17y ago
  >> One's for people inside the company That one, I'd venture.
blackcadillac 17y ago
Same thing goes for Coca-Cola and the happiness factory...

martythemaniak 17y ago

Although its a bit tongue-in-cheek, it really shows why Apple investors pay so much attention to Jobs' health. Apple is a very centralized and secretive organization with the appearance that all important decisions, from strategic to design decisions, going through Jobs. No wonder people wonder if Apple can keep being great if he leaves.

MikeCapone 17y ago

Did they pull the "Mercedes SL55" reference out of their asses, or are people at Apple (or Steve?) really known for driving those?

dchest 17y ago
http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+mercedes http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+mercedes

jganetsk 17y ago

Date Founded (1998 vs 1976) is listed as a difference, but really, it's more of a similarity. The "new" Apple, with Steve Jobs at the helm, was founded at about the same time as Google.

diggboard 17y ago

Apple is a fruit, Google is a number?

ajross 17y ago
Googol is a number. Google is what Cookie Monster's eyes do.