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The Native Client Proving Ground (Chrome)

14 points by denniskane 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
brudgers 11y ago
More about Google's Native Client: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client https://developer.chrome.com/native-client/nacl-and-pnacl https://developer.chrome.com/native-client/nacl-and-pnacl
pcwalton 11y ago
> To show a preview of what is possible when these technologies are blended together in higly creative ways, the desktop includes a very basic AI application called "Bertie", which could not have possibly been created with any other web browser. I'm not convinced [1] [2]. Oh, and the sales pitch for WebKit is pretty weird, given that Chrome forked WebKit into Blink, and the whole thing is built on NaCl, a technology that WebKit is not going to integrate. [1]: https://eeejay.github.io/espeak/emscripten/espeak.html https://eeejay.github.io/espeak/emscripten/espeak.html [2]: http://syl22-00.github.io/pocketsphinx.js/ http://syl22-00.github.io/pocketsphinx.js/
- denniskane 11y ago
  Emscripten running a crappy voice synthesizer might work, but nothing close to the silky smooth voices that chrome includes. It will really just add tons of bloat to the page. Voice synth is truly something that needs to be baked into the browser. Are you seriously implying that pocketsphinx in JS will do anything close to the level of voice recognition necessary to recognize pretty much anyone's voice, sight unseen? I mean, really? You kinda need to train the hell out of that thing to get it to recognize the difference between "merry christmas" and "happy hanukah", and even then, it will only really work for one person.
  - pcwalton 11y ago
    > Emscripten running a crappy voice synthesizer might work, but nothing close to the silky smooth voices that chrome includes. > You kinda need to train the hell out of that thing to get it to recognize the difference between "merry christmas" and "happy hanukah", and even then, it will only really work for one person. So compile an engine you like better. You claimed that voice recognition and synthesis "could not possibly be done in any other browser". As in, it's impossible. The fact is that you can do it by just compiling your favorite engine to asm.js, and people have done just that with several of them. So your sales pitch for Chrome is wrong. If you want to say that it's easier in Chrome because of the Web Speech API, that's fine. But impossible in other browsers? I don't believe it.
    - denniskane 11y ago
      I don't need to sell anything. I've already proven my point by building something that actually works. If you want to prove something about your favorite technology, you are going to have to build something that actually works using it. Given the current state of browser technology, the simple prototype that I've created could not possibly have been done with a dumb little JS thread running in a dumb little Web Worker. What in the world does it mean to "compile an engine I like better"? Do you really have any clue how much sophistication is going on server side with the SpeechRecognition API? Am I supposed to just magically conjure up something that can be compiled in order to recognize arbitrary words from arbitrary people?
otabdeveloper 11y ago
> This page works best in Megacorp (c) Browser! I thought we were past this sort of thing, no?
beerbajay 11y ago
> there is simply nothing that compares with WebKit, as this engine began its life in a fairly insignificant manner as the heart of Apple's [not very widely deployed] Safari browser. KHTML?
- denniskane 11y ago
  Funny how you see that on like every UA string, but no one really talks about it. I guess you can say that that's going to be the KDE project's most lasting contribution to the world of technology, since it gave rise to the most popular rendering engine on the planet.
denniskane 11y ago
This is weird. I actually posted this like 20 hours ago, and it was a spectacular flop. Now it says 5 hours ago, and now I'm actually on the second page of Hacker effing News! (Hi Mom!) About the "Why chrome?" page. I needed to put something there to explain why you need to use Chrome to get any use out of the site. I realize anything that I put there will only wind up as flame bait, so I tried to make it as "politically acceptable" as possible. The bottom line is that I couldn't care less about those political arguments. To me, the web will always be more about technical merit than anything else. Back in the "bad old days" of the original browser wars, Mozilla was at the forefront of pushing the technical boundaries of the web. Not so much anymore. Such is life. But don't let that stop anyone from engaging in an old-fashioned flame fest. Anything that gets this to the front page of HN is a-okay with me :)
- DanBC 11y ago
  They're trying some experiments to make good content surface. They tried sending an email asking people to repost. Now they adjust the time stamp and apply a small (1 extra point?) bonus.
  - denniskane 11y ago
    I wonder how this works, though. I assume there is not any kind of automated system on the backend of HN trying to figure out what is "good content" and what isn't.
    - AdmiralAsshat 11y ago
      HN's algorithms make no sense to me, either. I submitted this story the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10561347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10561347 It goes nowhere. Someone with higher karma submits the exact same article with the exact same headline about two hours later, and it winds up on the front page of HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10562207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10562207
      - 11y ago
i336_ 11y ago
I'm having a hard time understanding how NaCl improves or alters this at all. I understand NaCl is a way to execute x86 binary code inside a Web browser. I also understand NaCl is not enabled by default. I can't see anything anywhere on this page that eg fires up DOSBox. I also can't see anything giving me errors saying "NaCl is not enabled!"; I'm running the stable build, which doesn't enable it, and I've had no reason to change that. This looks like yet another reimplementation of a "web-based desktop".

14 points by denniskane 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

More about Google's Native Client: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client https://developer.chrome.com/native-client/nacl-and-pnacl https://developer.chrome.com/native-client/nacl-and-pnacl

pcwalton 11y ago

> To show a preview of what is possible when these technologies are blended together in higly creative ways, the desktop includes a very basic AI application called "Bertie", which could not have possibly been created with any other web browser. I'm not convinced [1] [2]. Oh, and the sales pitch for WebKit is pretty weird, given that Chrome forked WebKit into Blink, and the whole thing is built on NaCl, a technology that WebKit is not going to integrate. [1]: https://eeejay.github.io/espeak/emscripten/espeak.html https://eeejay.github.io/espeak/emscripten/espeak.html [2]: http://syl22-00.github.io/pocketsphinx.js/ http://syl22-00.github.io/pocketsphinx.js/

denniskane 11y ago
Emscripten running a crappy voice synthesizer might work, but nothing close to the silky smooth voices that chrome includes. It will really just add tons of bloat to the page. Voice synth is truly something that needs to be baked into the browser. Are you seriously implying that pocketsphinx in JS will do anything close to the level of voice recognition necessary to recognize pretty much anyone's voice, sight unseen? I mean, really? You kinda need to train the hell out of that thing to get it to recognize the difference between "merry christmas" and "happy hanukah", and even then, it will only really work for one person.
- pcwalton 11y ago
  > Emscripten running a crappy voice synthesizer might work, but nothing close to the silky smooth voices that chrome includes. > You kinda need to train the hell out of that thing to get it to recognize the difference between "merry christmas" and "happy hanukah", and even then, it will only really work for one person. So compile an engine you like better. You claimed that voice recognition and synthesis "could not possibly be done in any other browser". As in, it's impossible. The fact is that you can do it by just compiling your favorite engine to asm.js, and people have done just that with several of them. So your sales pitch for Chrome is wrong. If you want to say that it's easier in Chrome because of the Web Speech API, that's fine. But impossible in other browsers? I don't believe it.
  - denniskane 11y ago
    I don't need to sell anything. I've already proven my point by building something that actually works. If you want to prove something about your favorite technology, you are going to have to build something that actually works using it. Given the current state of browser technology, the simple prototype that I've created could not possibly have been done with a dumb little JS thread running in a dumb little Web Worker. What in the world does it mean to "compile an engine I like better"? Do you really have any clue how much sophistication is going on server side with the SpeechRecognition API? Am I supposed to just magically conjure up something that can be compiled in order to recognize arbitrary words from arbitrary people?

otabdeveloper 11y ago

> This page works best in Megacorp (c) Browser! I thought we were past this sort of thing, no?

beerbajay 11y ago

> there is simply nothing that compares with WebKit, as this engine began its life in a fairly insignificant manner as the heart of Apple's [not very widely deployed] Safari browser. KHTML?

denniskane 11y ago
Funny how you see that on like every UA string, but no one really talks about it. I guess you can say that that's going to be the KDE project's most lasting contribution to the world of technology, since it gave rise to the most popular rendering engine on the planet.

denniskane 11y ago

This is weird. I actually posted this like 20 hours ago, and it was a spectacular flop. Now it says 5 hours ago, and now I'm actually on the second page of Hacker effing News! (Hi Mom!) About the "Why chrome?" page. I needed to put something there to explain why you need to use Chrome to get any use out of the site. I realize anything that I put there will only wind up as flame bait, so I tried to make it as "politically acceptable" as possible. The bottom line is that I couldn't care less about those political arguments. To me, the web will always be more about technical merit than anything else. Back in the "bad old days" of the original browser wars, Mozilla was at the forefront of pushing the technical boundaries of the web. Not so much anymore. Such is life. But don't let that stop anyone from engaging in an old-fashioned flame fest. Anything that gets this to the front page of HN is a-okay with me :)

DanBC 11y ago
They're trying some experiments to make good content surface. They tried sending an email asking people to repost. Now they adjust the time stamp and apply a small (1 extra point?) bonus.
- denniskane 11y ago
  I wonder how this works, though. I assume there is not any kind of automated system on the backend of HN trying to figure out what is "good content" and what isn't.
  - AdmiralAsshat 11y ago
    HN's algorithms make no sense to me, either. I submitted this story the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10561347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10561347 It goes nowhere. Someone with higher karma submits the exact same article with the exact same headline about two hours later, and it winds up on the front page of HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10562207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10562207
    - 11y ago

i336_ 11y ago

I'm having a hard time understanding how NaCl improves or alters this at all. I understand NaCl is a way to execute x86 binary code inside a Web browser. I also understand NaCl is not enabled by default. I can't see anything anywhere on this page that eg fires up DOSBox. I also can't see anything giving me errors saying "NaCl is not enabled!"; I'm running the stable build, which doesn't enable it, and I've had no reason to change that. This looks like yet another reimplementation of a "web-based desktop".