3 ms·

> If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated

by aikah 11y ago

> If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. @deanCommie Please, stop with the excuses , nobody marginalized anybody. The terrorists are not victims , the islamists are not victims. so don't give them excuses. The wide majority of muslims in France are integrated, they are bakers, plumbers , computer scientists , my baker is a muslim , so stop with that bull. There is no excuse none. 10% of the french people are muslims, that's a fact, out of that fact it increases the chances of people chosing an extreme vision of islam. There was attacks in Spain , UK and obviously USA, is it because muslims were marginalized ? so stop please, you are ignorant trying to apply your post modernist canvas on things when some people are still taken hostage as we speak, you should be ashamed of yourself. FYI : I'm black and come from a muslim family though i'm not muslim, those who fail are those who don't try hard enough, nobody said it will be easy. Everything is "free" in France, education , college, healthcare , you feel "marginalized" , well there is Europe and you can basically pick and choose the country you want to live in today. So no excuses, enough.

CapitalistCartr 11y ago
What does "backer" mean? Edit: Ahh, you changed it to baker. My mind was wandering all over but there.
- aikah 11y ago
  sorry i meant baker, corrected.
erispoe 11y ago
These are not excuses, these are explanations. Because we need to understand how to defuse radicalization.
rtpg 11y ago
>The wide majority of muslims in France are integrated Sooooo many studies have been done where the same resume gets shown to recruiters, except one has a French name and the other has an Arabic name. The results were an overwhelming amount of french resumes were chosen over the Arabic one. Not to mention constant issues like police harassment The issue of integration of purely the fault of a country that pretends that race doesn't matter while simultaneously punishing minorities every step of the way
- aikah 11y ago
  > Sooooo many studies have been done where the same resume gets shown to recruiters, except one has a French name and the other has an Arabic name. The results were an overwhelming amount of french resumes were chosen over the Arabic one. Not to mention constant issues like police harassment Sure, but it doesn't make my point false. Is there some discrimination going on ? absolutely we need to fight it. Is it widespread absolutely not, I've been victim of racism in France because of the color of my skin , and you know what ? we have a lot of charities , organizations , and anti discrimination laws to fight against it. So what does it have to do with people killing 50+ innocents ? nothing. And the racism I endured didn't make me want to join ISIS or some bullshit Islamist movement, because I knew that for every racist ahole there are 10 000 people that are not and don't care about the color of my skin. But people like the OP and their "oppressor/oppressed" mindset are just giving excuses to the crazies , but there is no excuse , there is no explanation other than the terrorists a f.ed up and part of a death cult.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    The problem seems to me to be that a very small minority of gullible people wants to make their mark on society, and since they have no way to do that in a positive way they use a negative one. Just like there will be people blaming 'all of Islam' for this atrocity there will be people on the other side that blame 'all of the West' either for their own inability and failure or as as a reaction to the inequalities in the society they are a part of an which they will find it hard to overcome. It is these people that are at risk of being radicalized, the smart ones (like yourself) never were at risk in the first place, have found their niche and simply want to live their lives as good as they can, like everybody else. It's a pity because these few would be harmless fools if they weren't given the tools and instructions with which they then proceed their crimes, and probably they relish at the thought of the headlines they will be making. Unfortunately there is no shortage of people that would very much like to blame their own personal failure on others or that would exact blind revenge on innocents for perceived or real sleights instead of seeking redress in a less violent manner.
deanCommie 11y ago
I'm not excusing the terrorists. I'm trying to keep in check the people who are commenting on this and just saying "well yeah, this is what happens when you have 10% muslims in your country". I'm not defending the terrorists. I'm defending people like your family who will be lumped in with them in the next couple of weeks as people blame all of this on immigration and islam, like they do every time. The fact is, we are living in an age of muslim extremism and sympathies are at an all time high. We could look at it at that fact and blame 1.57 billion people for all sharing this radical ideology, or we could look at what other forces are nudging a small section of those people to radicalize. And avoid denial.
- aikah 11y ago
  > I'm not excusing the terrorists. I'm trying to keep in check the people who are commenting on this and just saying "well yeah, this is what happens when you have 10% muslims in your country". You're not trying to keep people in check, you are as ignorant as the people saying racist comments with your stupid pomo explanations. > I'm not defending the terrorists. I'm defending people like your family who will be lumped in with them in the next couple of weeks as people blame all of this on immigration and islam, like they do every time. I won't be lumped in with anybody because most of the french can tell the difference and I don't need anyone defending me, thank you, i'm capable of defending myself. You're talking about a problem you know nothing about, with a specific school of thinking that is stupid at first place. You want to talk about a population that is really marginalized in France? talk about the Roma, I didn't see anyone of them killing 50+ people because of it. and they have it much , much worse than any arab or black in France. France is not an apartheid where blacks, arabs and white people are separated and often ,those who claim being victim of society are the one with an intolerant and bigoted mindset. People like you give the crazies ammo to fuel their hatred toward a country that feed them , treat them , give them an education for free and a whole lot of percs. And again ,don't like it ? move , Europe is huge and go see if the grass is greener elsewhere.
  - dan_dimerman 11y ago
    these toy post-moderns don't notice that they are infantilizing muslims with all their bullshit. you are 100% correct: being marginalized is no excuse to become a monster.

by aikah 11y ago

CapitalistCartr 11y ago

What does "backer" mean? Edit: Ahh, you changed it to baker. My mind was wandering all over but there.

aikah 11y ago
sorry i meant baker, corrected.

erispoe 11y ago

These are not excuses, these are explanations. Because we need to understand how to defuse radicalization.

rtpg 11y ago

>The wide majority of muslims in France are integrated Sooooo many studies have been done where the same resume gets shown to recruiters, except one has a French name and the other has an Arabic name. The results were an overwhelming amount of french resumes were chosen over the Arabic one. Not to mention constant issues like police harassment The issue of integration of purely the fault of a country that pretends that race doesn't matter while simultaneously punishing minorities every step of the way

aikah 11y ago
> Sooooo many studies have been done where the same resume gets shown to recruiters, except one has a French name and the other has an Arabic name. The results were an overwhelming amount of french resumes were chosen over the Arabic one. Not to mention constant issues like police harassment Sure, but it doesn't make my point false. Is there some discrimination going on ? absolutely we need to fight it. Is it widespread absolutely not, I've been victim of racism in France because of the color of my skin , and you know what ? we have a lot of charities , organizations , and anti discrimination laws to fight against it. So what does it have to do with people killing 50+ innocents ? nothing. And the racism I endured didn't make me want to join ISIS or some bullshit Islamist movement, because I knew that for every racist ahole there are 10 000 people that are not and don't care about the color of my skin. But people like the OP and their "oppressor/oppressed" mindset are just giving excuses to the crazies , but there is no excuse , there is no explanation other than the terrorists a f.ed up and part of a death cult.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  The problem seems to me to be that a very small minority of gullible people wants to make their mark on society, and since they have no way to do that in a positive way they use a negative one. Just like there will be people blaming 'all of Islam' for this atrocity there will be people on the other side that blame 'all of the West' either for their own inability and failure or as as a reaction to the inequalities in the society they are a part of an which they will find it hard to overcome. It is these people that are at risk of being radicalized, the smart ones (like yourself) never were at risk in the first place, have found their niche and simply want to live their lives as good as they can, like everybody else. It's a pity because these few would be harmless fools if they weren't given the tools and instructions with which they then proceed their crimes, and probably they relish at the thought of the headlines they will be making. Unfortunately there is no shortage of people that would very much like to blame their own personal failure on others or that would exact blind revenge on innocents for perceived or real sleights instead of seeking redress in a less violent manner.

deanCommie 11y ago

I'm not excusing the terrorists. I'm trying to keep in check the people who are commenting on this and just saying "well yeah, this is what happens when you have 10% muslims in your country". I'm not defending the terrorists. I'm defending people like your family who will be lumped in with them in the next couple of weeks as people blame all of this on immigration and islam, like they do every time. The fact is, we are living in an age of muslim extremism and sympathies are at an all time high. We could look at it at that fact and blame 1.57 billion people for all sharing this radical ideology, or we could look at what other forces are nudging a small section of those people to radicalize. And avoid denial.

aikah 11y ago
> I'm not excusing the terrorists. I'm trying to keep in check the people who are commenting on this and just saying "well yeah, this is what happens when you have 10% muslims in your country". You're not trying to keep people in check, you are as ignorant as the people saying racist comments with your stupid pomo explanations. > I'm not defending the terrorists. I'm defending people like your family who will be lumped in with them in the next couple of weeks as people blame all of this on immigration and islam, like they do every time. I won't be lumped in with anybody because most of the french can tell the difference and I don't need anyone defending me, thank you, i'm capable of defending myself. You're talking about a problem you know nothing about, with a specific school of thinking that is stupid at first place. You want to talk about a population that is really marginalized in France? talk about the Roma, I didn't see anyone of them killing 50+ people because of it. and they have it much , much worse than any arab or black in France. France is not an apartheid where blacks, arabs and white people are separated and often ,those who claim being victim of society are the one with an intolerant and bigoted mindset. People like you give the crazies ammo to fuel their hatred toward a country that feed them , treat them , give them an education for free and a whole lot of percs. And again ,don't like it ? move , Europe is huge and go see if the grass is greener elsewhere.
- dan_dimerman 11y ago
  these toy post-moderns don't notice that they are infantilizing muslims with all their bullshit. you are 100% correct: being marginalized is no excuse to become a monster.