3 ms·

Yes. Now.

• jacquesm 11y ago
  I think it could wait for a day or two, this is happening right now and it is entirely disrespectful to those involved to derail this into some argument contra the surveillance state.
  • vacri 11y ago
    I think you're in error here. Benevol is talking about we need to talk about what kind of life we want to live, and this is a good time to talk about it. You yourself have been providing a lot of context in this thread (exhausting my upvote muscles...) talking about the same thing - why this is happening, sources of unrest, how to deal with the root problem, how technology is actually contributing to the problem... a tonne of context (thank you). But talking about surveillance laws dovetails into the gestalt of the problem, methinks.
    • jacquesm 11y ago
      The problem is that as soon as the surveillance issue is put on the table the rest of what is important gets snowed under with a re-hash of the same old very much worn out arguments. I'm fine with giving the surveillance issue a rest. It's patently obvious to me that it is not working at all and it is also patently obvious to me that in spite of it not working attacks like this will be used to justify whatever the 'morons in charge' can come up with next. So we can take that as read and then wonder how we - each of us personally - can do something to halt the advance of that and I'm sure that collectively we could achieve something. My way of helping out has traditionally been to employ as many people on the fringe as possible to help them where I could and to right wrongs where-ever I saw them. I draw my friends from all walks of life and try to be inclusive as much as I can. On a personal scale that's just about all I can do and even though it is nothing to be proud of I definitely think it made a measurable difference. The whole thing boils down to 'circle of concern/circle of influence' for me and a rehash of the surveillance discussion falls entirely outside of that 'circle of influence' even though it concerns me very much and I wished that politicians would wise up. It'll happen hopefully, one day.
    • waterlesscloud 11y ago
      No, it's a terrible time to talk about it. Talk about it now and you're going to get emotion-driven reactions, and they aren't going to be what you want. There isn't any time that would be less effective for your goals than right now.
      • vacri 11y ago
        Then no-one should be talking about anything to do with causes or wider issues. This page should then be nothing other than "this is bad, I hope everyone is safe". Instead we're seeing a lot of discussion and a lot of it is good - I think jacquesm in particular is doing a great job in providing context in a level-headed manner. The thing is, just because you start talking about it now doesn't mean you can't talk about it later. Or that you can't change your mind. Also, it's like 'teen abstinence' sex ed - you can tell people to refrain all you want, but they're still going to do it. People want to talk about this thing as it's happening; they will find a place to do it regardless.
        • jacquesm 11y ago
          Fair enough.