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Reuters just reported: "French President Hollande decides state of emergency for all of France, borders closed." Source: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Paris_at

Reuters just reported: "French President Hollande decides state of emergency for all of France, borders closed." Source: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Paris_attacks_2?utm_source=twitter http://live.reuters.com/Event/Paris_attacks_2?utm_source=twi...

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- harperlee 11y ago
  France has had millions of muslims since decades. And closing borders works both ways - you can stop people going out.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
grp 11y ago
So from ~100 hostages, there are more than 70 millions now?
cballard 11y ago
How, physically? Do borders really... exist in the Schengen Zone? Like, how do they shut this down? https://www.google.com/maps/place/France/@49.5467828,5.4362912,14.07z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0xd54a02933785731:0x6bfd3f96c747d9f7 https://www.google.com/maps/place/France/@49.5467828,5.43629...
- jacquesm 11y ago
  That's fairly easy. Airports are closed right now, the old border posts, even though they have been un-manned for quite a while (but not everywhere, as I found out to my surprise a few months ago, a so called 'spot check' was set up on one of the old border posts) can be easily re-established using military personel. It's a lot easier to re-establish something that was there before than it is to do it from scratch and this is more of a logistical problem (and a personel one) than one of technicalities about whether or not such a thing can be done. It's not like France didn't have a functioning border patrol a couple of years ago.
  - huac 11y ago
    Airports are not closed, Air France is still flying in/out of Paris.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      You are right, FR shows some planes landing others just departed.
- baddox 11y ago
  With the military, from what I'm gathering.
  - UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
    Appears like the French military got fully mobilized. So I'd agree, military checkpoints at the borders seems plausible. They've certainly been setting up checkpoints all around Paris.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- ju-st 11y ago
  Borders = streets, airport, train. You can't control the physical "green borders" in Schengen
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- nmc 11y ago
  There are still checkpoints at every major road crossing any border. Usually they are empty, but now the French Customs will be checking every car. They will likely be similar military/Customs presence at checkin for any international train or flight.
- nraynaud 11y ago
  Just roadblocks. Noting fancy for temporary and emergency.
- cataflam 11y ago
  It's possible even with Schengen. A clause in the Schengen convention (in article 2.2) authorizes states to reinstate border checks in exceptional circumstances. > Where there is a serious threat to public policy or internal security, these countries may exceptionally reintroduce border controls at its internal borders for a period of no more than 30 days (possible to prolong under conditions established by the code) or for the foreseeable duration of the serious threat. This action should be seen as a last resort. source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:l14514 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:l... France was actually going to reinstate some border checks from November 13 to December 13 for the COP21.
  - cballard 11y ago
    No, I get that it's legal. But there's no... border. In the map link I posted, you wouldn't be able to tell half of the satellite view was Belgium without Google telling you that's the case. How do you close that down, especially in the middle of the night? The US can't even do it in places with a wall.
    - uxwtf 11y ago
      I agree that closing all borders physically would be tough. There would be controls on the roads and airports, but in the zone you posted a physical wall is required to isolate two countries.
    - jessriedel 11y ago
      Presumably you close this border like every border: by placing guards wherever lines of transportation (e.g. roads) cross it. Yes, without a physical wall this means people can in principle walk across the border by passing through private property, forests, etc., but in practice this is very inefficient and conspicuous.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      Every one of those roads would be posted in the past, I very much suspect they'll do the same thing now at least for a while. I've driven a lot in that region and there are a few hundred crossings in all, it's not at all like the Canadian-US border or something like that, closing it off is entirely possible.
huac 11y ago
Belgium is supposedly assisting https://twitter.com/MikeDorning/status/665317533143011328 https://twitter.com/MikeDorning/status/665317533143011328

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

harperlee 11y ago
France has had millions of muslims since decades. And closing borders works both ways - you can stop people going out.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

grp 11y ago

So from ~100 hostages, there are more than 70 millions now?

cballard 11y ago

How, physically? Do borders really... exist in the Schengen Zone? Like, how do they shut this down? https://www.google.com/maps/place/France/@49.5467828,5.4362912,14.07z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0xd54a02933785731:0x6bfd3f96c747d9f7 https://www.google.com/maps/place/France/@49.5467828,5.43629...

jacquesm 11y ago
That's fairly easy. Airports are closed right now, the old border posts, even though they have been un-manned for quite a while (but not everywhere, as I found out to my surprise a few months ago, a so called 'spot check' was set up on one of the old border posts) can be easily re-established using military personel. It's a lot easier to re-establish something that was there before than it is to do it from scratch and this is more of a logistical problem (and a personel one) than one of technicalities about whether or not such a thing can be done. It's not like France didn't have a functioning border patrol a couple of years ago.
- huac 11y ago
  Airports are not closed, Air France is still flying in/out of Paris.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    You are right, FR shows some planes landing others just departed.
baddox 11y ago
With the military, from what I'm gathering.
- UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
  Appears like the French military got fully mobilized. So I'd agree, military checkpoints at the borders seems plausible. They've certainly been setting up checkpoints all around Paris.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
ju-st 11y ago
Borders = streets, airport, train. You can't control the physical "green borders" in Schengen
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
nmc 11y ago
There are still checkpoints at every major road crossing any border. Usually they are empty, but now the French Customs will be checking every car. They will likely be similar military/Customs presence at checkin for any international train or flight.
nraynaud 11y ago
Just roadblocks. Noting fancy for temporary and emergency.
cataflam 11y ago
It's possible even with Schengen. A clause in the Schengen convention (in article 2.2) authorizes states to reinstate border checks in exceptional circumstances. > Where there is a serious threat to public policy or internal security, these countries may exceptionally reintroduce border controls at its internal borders for a period of no more than 30 days (possible to prolong under conditions established by the code) or for the foreseeable duration of the serious threat. This action should be seen as a last resort. source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:l14514 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:l... France was actually going to reinstate some border checks from November 13 to December 13 for the COP21.
- cballard 11y ago
  No, I get that it's legal. But there's no... border. In the map link I posted, you wouldn't be able to tell half of the satellite view was Belgium without Google telling you that's the case. How do you close that down, especially in the middle of the night? The US can't even do it in places with a wall.
  - uxwtf 11y ago
    I agree that closing all borders physically would be tough. There would be controls on the roads and airports, but in the zone you posted a physical wall is required to isolate two countries.
  - jessriedel 11y ago
    Presumably you close this border like every border: by placing guards wherever lines of transportation (e.g. roads) cross it. Yes, without a physical wall this means people can in principle walk across the border by passing through private property, forests, etc., but in practice this is very inefficient and conspicuous.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Every one of those roads would be posted in the past, I very much suspect they'll do the same thing now at least for a while. I've driven a lot in that region and there are a few hundred crossings in all, it's not at all like the Canadian-US border or something like that, closing it off is entirely possible.

huac 11y ago

Belgium is supposedly assisting https://twitter.com/MikeDorning/status/665317533143011328 https://twitter.com/MikeDorning/status/665317533143011328