3 ms·

Their involvement in "those wars" being that they had to flee them?

by adsche 11y ago

ps4fanboy 11y ago
Europes involvement
- adsche 11y ago
  And in your imagination, who is resppnsible with what motive and why is that not baseless speculation?
  - ps4fanboy 11y ago
    I am sorry I dont understand what you mean can you edit your comment and I will try and answer your question.
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    I believe that what ps4fanboy meant is "Europe's involvement in those wars that the refugees are fleeing". That is, Europe has had some involvement in Libya, Syria, and Iraq. Do any of the refugees blame Europe for their [Europe's] involvement? Probably some do, yes.
jacquesm 11y ago
Yes, for the most of the people fleeing that was the sum total of their involvement. And for a small percentage of those people they either are taking the fight with them or have other plans. It's a tough situation, on the one hand no right thinking person has a problem with sheltering refugees, on the other hand those very same people are worried about what the long term consequences of these mass movements of people will be. One thing is fairly certain, the Schengen agreement (which has done more for the unification of Europe than almost any other EU activity short of the launch of the Euro) is going to be a casualty.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  Schengen will hold. But the outer borders of the union and the balkans will be militarized beyond belief.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    It is already changing. Give it a few weeks. Sweden and Hungary have already put border controls back in place, France will likely do as well as a result of this attack at least for the foreseeable future. After that - and coupled with the immense increase of cross-border crime in the last decade - it will be a fairly easy step to rescind Schengen, if not in name then at least in spirit or on a 'temporary' basis. It's the easiest way out of a lot of the current problems and it is a lot cheaper than militarizing the Balkans which has other side-effects that are mostly undesirable.
    - venomsnake 11y ago
      Border controls are one thing. Freedom of movements is another. Being forced to flash id card at the border is not the same as the border officer being able to refuse entry to a legal EU citizen.
      - jacquesm 11y ago
        True, but that means long lines waiting at the borders between countries again (hours for citizens, days for trucks). The damage would be enormous.
      - anigbrowl 11y ago
        I'm not cool with flashing ID. Could you imagine being in the US and having to go through checkpoints every time you crossed a state border?
        selimthegrim 11y ago
        You've never seen the ag inspection stations at California border crossings, or the Border Patrol posts near the NM/TX line?

Their involvement in "those wars" being that they had to flee them?

by adsche 11y ago

Their involvement in "those wars" being that they had to flee them?

ps4fanboy 11y ago

Europes involvement

adsche 11y ago
And in your imagination, who is resppnsible with what motive and why is that not baseless speculation?
- ps4fanboy 11y ago
  I am sorry I dont understand what you mean can you edit your comment and I will try and answer your question.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  I believe that what ps4fanboy meant is "Europe's involvement in those wars that the refugees are fleeing". That is, Europe has had some involvement in Libya, Syria, and Iraq. Do any of the refugees blame Europe for their [Europe's] involvement? Probably some do, yes.

jacquesm 11y ago

Yes, for the most of the people fleeing that was the sum total of their involvement. And for a small percentage of those people they either are taking the fight with them or have other plans. It's a tough situation, on the one hand no right thinking person has a problem with sheltering refugees, on the other hand those very same people are worried about what the long term consequences of these mass movements of people will be. One thing is fairly certain, the Schengen agreement (which has done more for the unification of Europe than almost any other EU activity short of the launch of the Euro) is going to be a casualty.

venomsnake 11y ago
Schengen will hold. But the outer borders of the union and the balkans will be militarized beyond belief.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  It is already changing. Give it a few weeks. Sweden and Hungary have already put border controls back in place, France will likely do as well as a result of this attack at least for the foreseeable future. After that - and coupled with the immense increase of cross-border crime in the last decade - it will be a fairly easy step to rescind Schengen, if not in name then at least in spirit or on a 'temporary' basis. It's the easiest way out of a lot of the current problems and it is a lot cheaper than militarizing the Balkans which has other side-effects that are mostly undesirable.
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    Border controls are one thing. Freedom of movements is another. Being forced to flash id card at the border is not the same as the border officer being able to refuse entry to a legal EU citizen.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      True, but that means long lines waiting at the borders between countries again (hours for citizens, days for trucks). The damage would be enormous.
    - anigbrowl 11y ago
      I'm not cool with flashing ID. Could you imagine being in the US and having to go through checkpoints every time you crossed a state border?
      - selimthegrim 11y ago
        You've never seen the ag inspection stations at California border crossings, or the Border Patrol posts near the NM/TX line?