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A disaster. Obviously don't know yet who is responsible, but I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy numbe
by Gatsky 11y ago
A disaster.
Obviously don't know yet who is responsible, but I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one.
- kobayashi 11y agoSofter target. This is my area of study.
- wavefunction 11y agoWhy don't you expound then if you're an expert? Certainly they're closer and easier to get to from the Middle East than other parts of the world and contain a larger Arab population making it easier to hide within and recruit from. But I would imagine French intelligence is deep within that same population and I remember members of the military on patrol in the streets of Paris.
- kobayashi 11y agoTo be clear, I wasn't professing to be an expert. I'd hesitate to assume that French intelligence operatives have thoroughly penetrated terrorist groups and their sympathizers. My experience suggests that French authorities have for years underestimated the threat posed by such groups and are also significantly underfunded/under resourced. The military patrol is primarily a form of security theatre, though that does depend upon the location. Some areas truly do need greater protection, such as repeatedly targeted venues, and those populations do need reassurance that they are not completely vulnerable. I also want to make clear that those forces can actually intervene in the unlikely situation that the protected venue is attacked, but it's also likely that their presence displaces the attacks to alternative sites. Anyway, France has a significant population that is sympathetic to jihadi terrorism's goals and practices, and my understanding is that counterterrorism and terrorism response operations in France - both strategically and tactically - leave much to be desired. France/Paris is not like Munich circa 1972 (shit-show level of unpreparedness), but there's significant room for improvement.
- tallerholler 11y agothis is what I thought too.. France is a Western country and is probably much easier to target than e.g. the U.S. or even the UK
- kobayashi 11y agoYup, I replied to another comment right above this somewhat detailing my thoughts on the matter, too. To me, France is certainly an easier place to carry out such a terrorist attack than the USA or the UK.
- jacquesm 11y agoFrance has a huge body of dis-enfranchised easily radicalized youths. This has already led to many confrontations with the rest of the French and has resulted in riots, bombings and shootings. It's a real problem because for a long time politicians were somewhat in denial that this could become a problem and now that it has emerged it is very hard to change things for the better because of the numbers of people involved. This is complex stuff and there are no easy solutions, if any.
- celticninja 11y agoThere are a lot of poor French Muslim men who are disaffected and marginalised. It is a target because it is where the terrorists are from.
- grp 11y ago... and a lot more who are not disaffected and not marginalised if not rich.
- younes0 11y agoYeah, they have healthcare, basic income and free university, still they choose mediocrity and ignorance. Fuck them
- serge2k 11y agoNone of those things can really instill a sense of purpose. I agree with your point of fuck them, but still.
- celticninja 11y agoI am in no way defending them, I agree with your sentiments entirely. But that doesn't mean what I said was untrue.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- omginternets 11y ago>They are hardly terrorist enemy number one. We consistently rank with top-notch nations, thank you very much.
- vermooten 11y agoFar right parties are more mainstream in France than other western European countries. This suggests a more racist society. Racism leads to marginalised youths who have nothing to lose. Easy pickings for anyone who wants to use their potential.
- fgcrownstad 11y agoAre you referring to Muslim attitudes towards anyone not Muslim?
- vacri 11y agoThey're an ex-colonial power that still throws it's weight around the geopolitical stage, and still sends it's military against the developing world. Just last week they moved their aircraft carrier to Syria, for example.
- Florin_Andrei 11y agoIt's a lot easier for the terrorists to get into France, compared to, say, the US.
- qb45 11y ago> I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one. Maybe because they let into their borders too many losers whose worldview renders them incapable of finding their way around the western the world? Maybe no more reasons are needed? No politics, no aims, nothing to gain, just a bunch of frustrated losers?
- gangcil_yc 11y agoHere are some perspectives: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/reflections-on-the-recent-paris-massacre-and-zionism/ https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/reflections-on-the-recent-pari...
- stvswn 11y agoFrance jealously guards its secular republic. Separation of church and state is a top priority (well above the U.S. and U.K. -- for instance, head coverings are not allowed in public schools). The French are notably resilient in the face of intimidation (see the protests and solidarity after the Charlie Hebdo shootings). There's a lot about the French for terrorists to hate, which is worthy of admiration in my opinion.
- serge2k 11y ago> well above the U.S. and U.K. -- for instance, head coverings are not allowed in public schools is that even really about separation of church and state? Somehow I doubt it. Also the US takes the, IMO, "better" position of saying that individuals practicing private religion doesn't break separation of church and state. Organized religion does. Of course the US also effectively forces their children to recite a pledge (which includes "under god"), which I find rather distateful.
- stvswn 11y agoI'm not endorsing it, but the French attitude (generally) is that religion is a private concern that doesn't belong in the public forum. They view public displays of religion by private individuals with suspicion and distaste, which is different culturally from the U.S. Like I clarified below, I don't admire that specifically -- I do admire that they treasure and protect their civic values in the face of intimidation.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
- makomk 11y agoFrance started bombing Syria a month or two ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34372892 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34372892 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-09/french-defense-min-le-drian-says-france-bombed-syria-last-night http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-09/french-def...
- toyg 11y ago> They are hardly terrorist enemy number one. You might think that only because it doesn't resonate in the English-speaking press, but that's far from true. In reality, France is historically involved in any goings-on in Northern Africa, and is a fundamental partner to US and UK in Middle East policies. They were the main proponents for "blowing up" Lybia, while UK and Italy had built bridges with the regime and were preparing for an eventual transition. They started military operations in Syria only a few months ago, but mostly because they have troops continuously engaged in various African countries and have to keep an eye on their limited resources. Across radicalised groups all over Africa, ME and Asia, France is still seen as an old-school, violent colonial power with an anti-muslim bent. You could be surprised if Spain or (to a lesser degree) Italy were targeted, but France easily makes the "Top 5 Targets List" of most violent nutjobs in that part of the world.
- RockyMcNuts 11y agoFrance colonized North Africa, and has approaching 10% Muslim population, many somewhat marginalized. They have a pretty strong historical and current involvement in the Middle East and a lot of people who could potentially be radicalized.