6 ms·

Reports that Bassel Khartabil has been sentenced to death

221 points by ahtierney 11y ago

corndoge 11y ago
I hate feeling completely powerless in these kinds of situations. All I can do short of flying to Syria and taking up arms against such tyranny is upvoting this post. Absolutely pathetic. Update: The least we can do: http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria-release-bassel-khartabil-ua-22015 http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria...
- DiabloD3 11y ago
  Yeah, honestly, its shit like this other countries should go to war over. The United States was founded on free speech, not just having it, but spreading that ideal everywhere. FOSS is free speech. We dropped bombs on Iraq for non-existant WMDs, and invaded Afghanistan over a CIA agent that was living in Pakistan, yet we won't do anything to an out of control government bent on destroying what little society it has left and is a legitimate threat to national security. Fuck that.
  - stoolpigeon 11y ago
    How is Syria a legitimate threat to national security of the US? (not rhetorical)
    - xlm1717 11y ago
      We could use vague language like harbors terrorists or funds terrorists. More realistically, though, I perceive ISIS as a greater threat to US national security. As an example, the TSA is already getting more ornery with airport security in response to the Russian airplane downed over Egypt for which ISIS has taken responsibility. And ISIS only claims responsibility as revenge against Russian intervention in Syria, intervention on behalf of the government of Syria. If Syria is a threat, it's a lot less pressing than the threat posed by the militants fighting Syria.
    - mangeletti 11y ago
      Syria is a very much a threat to US interests, because it has a regime hostile to us, friendly to Russia and Iran, and it borders the Mediterranean Sea, giving competitors to the US that could be friendly to Turkey (read: Russia via Georgia) a trade and supply route to the Mediterranean. Because of this, the economics that are favorable to Turkey, in a situation where Syria "falls" to Russia, create interests that conflict with those of the US, particularly during war. In other words, from geopolitical and war strategy standpoints, Syria is currently one of the more important countries in the world, to the US.
      - jqm 11y ago
        Yep. It also borders Israel and sits directly on the main trade route between the oil/gas rich Sheikdoms and Europe.
      - venomsnake 11y ago
        Ex country. Syria is a territory now. The only ways it could resemble some form of country - lets say they are unacceptable from moral view. The winning faction - no matter which - will surely go on a rampage of power consolidation with ethnic and religious cleansing in the mix :( So we have two harrowing option - yet another autocrat committing atrocities and generating suffering. Or warring camps that will commit atrocities and generate suffering.
  - pjc50 11y ago
    It would be a lot easier to argue against execution if we weren't in the habit of remotely executing people without trial. Presumably the Syrians have designated him an 'unlawful combatant' or some such pretext. Also, we are not going to war in Syria. The Russian government has been quite clear that they are allies of Assad.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    "Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -- James Madison I'm also curious how war is compatible with "spreading the ideal of free speech". If anything, war is usually associated with the curtailing of free speech, and is when sedition is most actively persecuted.
    - zensavona 11y ago
      > I'm also curious how war is compatible with "spreading the ideal of free speech". Probably the same way the US spread the ideal of freedom to the Middle East.
  - jqm 11y ago
    Maybe part of the reason we won't, (and shouldn't), do anything about Assad is because of the outcomes of our last military "fixes". What we left behind is a lot worse than what was there originally.
    - vkou 11y ago
      The US has been directly[1], and indirectly[2] providing weapons to Syrian terrorist groups, including Al Nusra (Their local branch of Al Qaeda - with similar goals to what they pursued in Iraq over the past decade) for two years, now. The State Department has never been skittish about getting into bed with violent islamic fundamentalists, and doesn't care about the success (Or the lack thereof) of the last round of military "fixes." It also doesn't seem to recall how this situation played out in Afghanistan... Circa 1980. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins-weapons-delivery-to-syrian-rebels/2013/09/11/9fcf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-b... [2] http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/25/443577215/syrian-rebels-trained-by-u-s-gave-equipment-to-al-nusra-front http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/25/443577215/...
  - efuquen 11y ago
    I'm sure Saddam kill thousands of Bassel Khartabil like figures during his time in power. By this logic you should have supported that war as well. I'm not quite sure what you mean by Afghanistan? I'm pretty sure we invaded because of 9/11. If we went to war solely because of things like this we would be fighting a lot more of them. I think you are too emotionally close to the issue because of the specific subject matter this activist fought for. No, I would not condone a war just for stuff like this, I don't want American's to die anymore then I want Bassel Khartabil to die.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - pessimizer 11y ago
    American allies in the Middle East are Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel. We don't care about human rights in the Middle East; we prop up horrible administrations there and shield them indefinitely. Why you think elite concerns like free speech and open source software should be a special case is beyond me.
    - jules 11y ago
      Funny that you mention those three countries in one breath like that.
      - vkou 11y ago
        Israel is an violent apartheid state, Saudi Arabia is a brutal theocracy... And, well, I guess Egypt is the odd man out?
        jules 11y ago
        I would say that Saudi Arabia is the odd one, and Israel is, given its circumstances, on far less low moral ground, for what that's worth. That is not to say that Israel does not do a great number of deplorable things, but certainly if Israel swapped weapons with Hamas then every Jew in Israel would be dead within a day.
  - happyscrappy 11y ago
    Once more into the quagmire? Fuck that.
- derwildemomo 11y ago
  Hey, no one is without powers. Ours are very limited in situations like that, but amnesty international usually provides a set of honoraries that can be addressed in situations like that, as well as in depth information about the case, in this case: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde24/2603/2015/en/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde24/2603/2015/en/ Of course, writing someone is useless most of the time, but within the powers we all have is also the power to create awareness for a situation of massive injustice.
  - corndoge 11y ago
    Millions of people being aware of Khartabil's situation doesn't mean anything if he's executed. Preventing that is the goal. It cannot be accomplished without force, or threat of force, or some other form of pressure that only world governments have the capacity to apply. And we are not any of those.
    - maqr 11y ago
      We (the people) should probably be at least one of the governments. I don't know how these decisions are actually made, but I would think there'd be at least one government with one military team that would willingly rescue him. If anyone is in the military, what's the feeling when these kinds of things happen? It seems like there should be brave people volunteering for those kinds of rescue missions where someone really needs their help.
      - xlm1717 11y ago
        I imagine they feel similarly powerless. Sending brave people in there would necessarily force a military confrontation with Russia, which I think everyone would agree is a very bad idea.
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    This thread has been linked from a front page thread, sorry to reply so late. According to Amnesty the letter writing campaign matters, because the government knows they can't hide what they are doing (and even though Assad is especially horrible, his regime must try to hide this, otherwise why sentence him in secret?) when sacks of mail starts to flow in from the entire world.
- omarish 11y ago
  I'm probably going to get downvoted a lot for this, but this is probably the exact feeling people on the other side get that causes them to go to Syria and take up arms and join isil. Edit: To be 100% clear, I'm by no means sympathizing. Rather, I believe that understanding an adversary's motivations can help resolve a conflict.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    Quick, edit out the preemptive complaint so you can see what people think about what you say instead of what they think about the whining.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - lemevi 11y ago
    How does that logic go? "I don't like tyranny so I'm going to join a group of murderers and rapists who are best known for their beheading videos". I know nothing about the complex situation in Syria and Iraq but I always guessed that ISIL in Syria was more about Iraqi post-Sunni Awakening fallout after being locked out of governing by al-Maliki. Like if you look at a map of ISIL in Iraq you see the area they have is the area that was hostile to Iraqi Occupation in 2007 and the leader of ISIL is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, an Iraqi who was an insurgent from Fallujah. They just took advantage of the problems in Syria and used that as a spring board into Iraq. The reason the fight against ISIL is going so slow in Iraq is the same reason it was such a tough fight in 2007. They're fighting the Iraqis who live there, it's not a Syrian invasion force. So why would someone from Damascus be joining ISIL over this problem?
    - dave2000 11y ago
      "I know nothing about the complex situation in Syria" https://kanvaasi.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/bors151112-1500.png https://kanvaasi.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/bors151112-1500...
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
- jqm 11y ago
  "flying to Syria and taking up arms" meh... why not? everyone else seems to be doing it.
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    It does have that rusty 1914 smell to it ...
- wslh 11y ago
  I think, in this case, bribing will work better than taking arms in Syria. The problem is finding all the people you need to bribe and engage in a conversation.
- Kinnard 11y ago
  You are not powerless. You are never powerless. Your mind is the most powerful thing on the planet. Finding your power rests in realizing that.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    How do I use that to stop this person's death? 1) Realize power of mind. 2) ???? 3) Stop execution.
    - sillysaurus3 11y ago
      We can try to stop deaths of this type.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Could you be a little more specific as to how?
        xkarga00 11y ago
        By living and behaving as a normal human being.
- gnu8 11y ago
  How much money have you got? Maybe the HN community can scrape together a few million to pay a private military contractor to go in and "bail him out"?
jqm 11y ago
Does anyone know what specifically he was accused of doing? If he had ties with Western intelligence his detention is understandable (I don't support death penalty in this case, nor Assad, and it would be cool if they released the guy to the West, I'm only saying it's understandable if he was active in opposition spheres). Just because a person is a "hacker" doesn't mean they weren't involved in trying to violently overturn Assad's government.
- elipsey 11y ago
  He blogged about people being arrested by state security during the protests. It's not clear that he has been formally acussed of anything in particular beyond "treason". Detailed formal charges may be an unessecary formality in Syria. https://www.eff.org/offline/bassel-khartabil https://www.eff.org/offline/bassel-khartabil
  - jqm 11y ago
    Well.. that doesn't say he didn't have ties to Western intelligence. But I followed the links and sent an email to Syrian ambassador for the UN appealing for Khartabil's release. http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria-release-bassel-khartabil-ua-22015 http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria...
pbreit 11y ago
I wish the USA would get rid of the death penalty. Completely barbaric, cruel and unusual. I still think we have the high road on our sides in situations like this.
Camillo 11y ago
There is no indication that the sentence has been carried out, AFAICT. The black ribbon on the homepage is premature.
- mej10 11y ago
  The current black ribbon is due to Gene Amdahl's death.
  - Camillo 11y ago
    Oh, right, I just noticed it farther down on the page. :(
- ejk314 11y ago
  DUATYADU, please.

221 points by ahtierney 11y ago

I hate feeling completely powerless in these kinds of situations. All I can do short of flying to Syria and taking up arms against such tyranny is upvoting this post. Absolutely pathetic. Update: The least we can do: http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria-release-bassel-khartabil-ua-22015 http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria...

DiabloD3 11y ago
Yeah, honestly, its shit like this other countries should go to war over. The United States was founded on free speech, not just having it, but spreading that ideal everywhere. FOSS is free speech. We dropped bombs on Iraq for non-existant WMDs, and invaded Afghanistan over a CIA agent that was living in Pakistan, yet we won't do anything to an out of control government bent on destroying what little society it has left and is a legitimate threat to national security. Fuck that.
- stoolpigeon 11y ago
  How is Syria a legitimate threat to national security of the US? (not rhetorical)
  - xlm1717 11y ago
    We could use vague language like harbors terrorists or funds terrorists. More realistically, though, I perceive ISIS as a greater threat to US national security. As an example, the TSA is already getting more ornery with airport security in response to the Russian airplane downed over Egypt for which ISIS has taken responsibility. And ISIS only claims responsibility as revenge against Russian intervention in Syria, intervention on behalf of the government of Syria. If Syria is a threat, it's a lot less pressing than the threat posed by the militants fighting Syria.
  - mangeletti 11y ago
    Syria is a very much a threat to US interests, because it has a regime hostile to us, friendly to Russia and Iran, and it borders the Mediterranean Sea, giving competitors to the US that could be friendly to Turkey (read: Russia via Georgia) a trade and supply route to the Mediterranean. Because of this, the economics that are favorable to Turkey, in a situation where Syria "falls" to Russia, create interests that conflict with those of the US, particularly during war. In other words, from geopolitical and war strategy standpoints, Syria is currently one of the more important countries in the world, to the US.
    - jqm 11y ago
      Yep. It also borders Israel and sits directly on the main trade route between the oil/gas rich Sheikdoms and Europe.
    - venomsnake 11y ago
      Ex country. Syria is a territory now. The only ways it could resemble some form of country - lets say they are unacceptable from moral view. The winning faction - no matter which - will surely go on a rampage of power consolidation with ethnic and religious cleansing in the mix :( So we have two harrowing option - yet another autocrat committing atrocities and generating suffering. Or warring camps that will commit atrocities and generate suffering.
- pjc50 11y ago
  It would be a lot easier to argue against execution if we weren't in the habit of remotely executing people without trial. Presumably the Syrians have designated him an 'unlawful combatant' or some such pretext. Also, we are not going to war in Syria. The Russian government has been quite clear that they are allies of Assad.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  "Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." -- James Madison I'm also curious how war is compatible with "spreading the ideal of free speech". If anything, war is usually associated with the curtailing of free speech, and is when sedition is most actively persecuted.
  - zensavona 11y ago
    > I'm also curious how war is compatible with "spreading the ideal of free speech". Probably the same way the US spread the ideal of freedom to the Middle East.
- jqm 11y ago
  Maybe part of the reason we won't, (and shouldn't), do anything about Assad is because of the outcomes of our last military "fixes". What we left behind is a lot worse than what was there originally.
  - vkou 11y ago
    The US has been directly[1], and indirectly[2] providing weapons to Syrian terrorist groups, including Al Nusra (Their local branch of Al Qaeda - with similar goals to what they pursued in Iraq over the past decade) for two years, now. The State Department has never been skittish about getting into bed with violent islamic fundamentalists, and doesn't care about the success (Or the lack thereof) of the last round of military "fixes." It also doesn't seem to recall how this situation played out in Afghanistan... Circa 1980. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-begins-weapons-delivery-to-syrian-rebels/2013/09/11/9fcf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-b... [2] http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/25/443577215/syrian-rebels-trained-by-u-s-gave-equipment-to-al-nusra-front http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/25/443577215/...
- efuquen 11y ago
  I'm sure Saddam kill thousands of Bassel Khartabil like figures during his time in power. By this logic you should have supported that war as well. I'm not quite sure what you mean by Afghanistan? I'm pretty sure we invaded because of 9/11. If we went to war solely because of things like this we would be fighting a lot more of them. I think you are too emotionally close to the issue because of the specific subject matter this activist fought for. No, I would not condone a war just for stuff like this, I don't want American's to die anymore then I want Bassel Khartabil to die.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- pessimizer 11y ago
  American allies in the Middle East are Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Israel. We don't care about human rights in the Middle East; we prop up horrible administrations there and shield them indefinitely. Why you think elite concerns like free speech and open source software should be a special case is beyond me.
  - jules 11y ago
    Funny that you mention those three countries in one breath like that.
    - vkou 11y ago
      Israel is an violent apartheid state, Saudi Arabia is a brutal theocracy... And, well, I guess Egypt is the odd man out?
      - jules 11y ago
        I would say that Saudi Arabia is the odd one, and Israel is, given its circumstances, on far less low moral ground, for what that's worth. That is not to say that Israel does not do a great number of deplorable things, but certainly if Israel swapped weapons with Hamas then every Jew in Israel would be dead within a day.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  Once more into the quagmire? Fuck that.
derwildemomo 11y ago
Hey, no one is without powers. Ours are very limited in situations like that, but amnesty international usually provides a set of honoraries that can be addressed in situations like that, as well as in depth information about the case, in this case: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde24/2603/2015/en/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde24/2603/2015/en/ Of course, writing someone is useless most of the time, but within the powers we all have is also the power to create awareness for a situation of massive injustice.
- corndoge 11y ago
  Millions of people being aware of Khartabil's situation doesn't mean anything if he's executed. Preventing that is the goal. It cannot be accomplished without force, or threat of force, or some other form of pressure that only world governments have the capacity to apply. And we are not any of those.
  - maqr 11y ago
    We (the people) should probably be at least one of the governments. I don't know how these decisions are actually made, but I would think there'd be at least one government with one military team that would willingly rescue him. If anyone is in the military, what's the feeling when these kinds of things happen? It seems like there should be brave people volunteering for those kinds of rescue missions where someone really needs their help.
    - xlm1717 11y ago
      I imagine they feel similarly powerless. Sending brave people in there would necessarily force a military confrontation with Russia, which I think everyone would agree is a very bad idea.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  This thread has been linked from a front page thread, sorry to reply so late. According to Amnesty the letter writing campaign matters, because the government knows they can't hide what they are doing (and even though Assad is especially horrible, his regime must try to hide this, otherwise why sentence him in secret?) when sacks of mail starts to flow in from the entire world.
omarish 11y ago
I'm probably going to get downvoted a lot for this, but this is probably the exact feeling people on the other side get that causes them to go to Syria and take up arms and join isil. Edit: To be 100% clear, I'm by no means sympathizing. Rather, I believe that understanding an adversary's motivations can help resolve a conflict.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  Quick, edit out the preemptive complaint so you can see what people think about what you say instead of what they think about the whining.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- lemevi 11y ago
  How does that logic go? "I don't like tyranny so I'm going to join a group of murderers and rapists who are best known for their beheading videos". I know nothing about the complex situation in Syria and Iraq but I always guessed that ISIL in Syria was more about Iraqi post-Sunni Awakening fallout after being locked out of governing by al-Maliki. Like if you look at a map of ISIL in Iraq you see the area they have is the area that was hostile to Iraqi Occupation in 2007 and the leader of ISIL is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, an Iraqi who was an insurgent from Fallujah. They just took advantage of the problems in Syria and used that as a spring board into Iraq. The reason the fight against ISIL is going so slow in Iraq is the same reason it was such a tough fight in 2007. They're fighting the Iraqis who live there, it's not a Syrian invasion force. So why would someone from Damascus be joining ISIL over this problem?
  - dave2000 11y ago
    "I know nothing about the complex situation in Syria" https://kanvaasi.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/bors151112-1500.png https://kanvaasi.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/bors151112-1500...
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
jqm 11y ago
"flying to Syria and taking up arms" meh... why not? everyone else seems to be doing it.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  It does have that rusty 1914 smell to it ...
wslh 11y ago
I think, in this case, bribing will work better than taking arms in Syria. The problem is finding all the people you need to bribe and engage in a conversation.
Kinnard 11y ago
You are not powerless. You are never powerless. Your mind is the most powerful thing on the planet. Finding your power rests in realizing that.
- mikeash 11y ago
  How do I use that to stop this person's death? 1) Realize power of mind. 2) ???? 3) Stop execution.
  - sillysaurus3 11y ago
    We can try to stop deaths of this type.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Could you be a little more specific as to how?
      - xkarga00 11y ago
        By living and behaving as a normal human being.
gnu8 11y ago
How much money have you got? Maybe the HN community can scrape together a few million to pay a private military contractor to go in and "bail him out"?

jqm 11y ago

Does anyone know what specifically he was accused of doing? If he had ties with Western intelligence his detention is understandable (I don't support death penalty in this case, nor Assad, and it would be cool if they released the guy to the West, I'm only saying it's understandable if he was active in opposition spheres). Just because a person is a "hacker" doesn't mean they weren't involved in trying to violently overturn Assad's government.

elipsey 11y ago
He blogged about people being arrested by state security during the protests. It's not clear that he has been formally acussed of anything in particular beyond "treason". Detailed formal charges may be an unessecary formality in Syria. https://www.eff.org/offline/bassel-khartabil https://www.eff.org/offline/bassel-khartabil
- jqm 11y ago
  Well.. that doesn't say he didn't have ties to Western intelligence. But I followed the links and sent an email to Syrian ambassador for the UN appealing for Khartabil's release. http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria-release-bassel-khartabil-ua-22015 http://www.amnestyusa.org/get-involved/take-action-now/syria...

pbreit 11y ago

I wish the USA would get rid of the death penalty. Completely barbaric, cruel and unusual. I still think we have the high road on our sides in situations like this.

Camillo 11y ago

There is no indication that the sentence has been carried out, AFAICT. The black ribbon on the homepage is premature.

mej10 11y ago
The current black ribbon is due to Gene Amdahl's death.
- Camillo 11y ago
  Oh, right, I just noticed it farther down on the page. :(
ejk314 11y ago
DUATYADU, please.