4 ms·

> whereas the transition from Java 6 to later versions is proving to be next to impossible I've never heard of anyone having issues going from Java 6 to later

by diek 11y ago

> whereas the transition from Java 6 to later versions is proving to be next to impossible I've never heard of anyone having issues going from Java 6 to later versions, at the language level or JVM level.

davelnewton 11y ago
Same here; haven't found this to be the case at all.
pjmlp 11y ago
Android? Without community hacks.
- oblio 11y ago
  Yes, but is that because of Java compatibility (which has been generally exemplary) or maybe because of other issues (I'm thinking of Oracle vs Google)?
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    First it starts by Google playing cheap and doing a Microsoft move on Sun. Before I get the usual Sun CEO approved it reply: http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle_v http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle... Second, at least on lambdas they could generate inner classes for older devices and update DEX format now that Dex is compiled AOT to native code. So only the compiler dex2aot would be required to be updated. Currently there is zero public feedback on the new compiler chain (Jack & Jill), but from the sources it appears it is Java 6.5 all the way. They have some unit tests that appear to be related to Java 8, but no one knows what is their idea. In a few years (by Java 10 timeframe), according to the actual roadmap which might still change, Java will have modules, a JNI replacement, reifeid generics, value types, new array type, GPGPU support, AOT compiler.... If nothing changes, assuming Android 4.4 devices will be gone, the only change will be from Java 6.5 to Java 7, if Android's team attitude is to stay like it currently is. But at least they spend time doing those stupid devbytes videos, doing continuous buggy releases of the support library and Google services. Android Java is definitely the second coming of J++/J#.
    - oblio 11y ago
      Well, as you said, it's just bad stewardship on Google's part. Sun/Oracle seem to have a much better track record regarding Java-"proper".
    - geodel 11y ago
      I think the new Oracle Java for mobile devices is wonderful and will replace Google Android.
    - Scarbutt 11y ago
      AOT compiler.... Compiler to native code? aren't the big performance gains done in the JVM?
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        Not if startup time matters or if you need to deploy into systems where dynamic linking is not possible. The majority of the commercial third party JVM vendors do offer AOT as part of their toolchain. Similarly .NET always had a JIT/AOT model. The novelty with .NET Native is static compilation and integration of the Visual C++ backend. I don't if this is true, but I read somewhere that AOT was tabu at Sun. Oracle is now improving Java to cover the use cases where it still fails short vs other alternatives, so having an AOT compiler in the reference JDK instead of forcing devs to get it from a third party is part of their roadmap. How it will look like in the end, it is not 100% clear.

by diek 11y ago

davelnewton 11y ago

Same here; haven't found this to be the case at all.

pjmlp 11y ago

Android? Without community hacks.

oblio 11y ago
Yes, but is that because of Java compatibility (which has been generally exemplary) or maybe because of other issues (I'm thinking of Oracle vs Google)?
- pjmlp 11y ago
  First it starts by Google playing cheap and doing a Microsoft move on Sun. Before I get the usual Sun CEO approved it reply: http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle_v http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle... Second, at least on lambdas they could generate inner classes for older devices and update DEX format now that Dex is compiled AOT to native code. So only the compiler dex2aot would be required to be updated. Currently there is zero public feedback on the new compiler chain (Jack & Jill), but from the sources it appears it is Java 6.5 all the way. They have some unit tests that appear to be related to Java 8, but no one knows what is their idea. In a few years (by Java 10 timeframe), according to the actual roadmap which might still change, Java will have modules, a JNI replacement, reifeid generics, value types, new array type, GPGPU support, AOT compiler.... If nothing changes, assuming Android 4.4 devices will be gone, the only change will be from Java 6.5 to Java 7, if Android's team attitude is to stay like it currently is. But at least they spend time doing those stupid devbytes videos, doing continuous buggy releases of the support library and Google services. Android Java is definitely the second coming of J++/J#.
  - oblio 11y ago
    Well, as you said, it's just bad stewardship on Google's part. Sun/Oracle seem to have a much better track record regarding Java-"proper".
  - geodel 11y ago
    I think the new Oracle Java for mobile devices is wonderful and will replace Google Android.
  - Scarbutt 11y ago
    AOT compiler.... Compiler to native code? aren't the big performance gains done in the JVM?
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      Not if startup time matters or if you need to deploy into systems where dynamic linking is not possible. The majority of the commercial third party JVM vendors do offer AOT as part of their toolchain. Similarly .NET always had a JIT/AOT model. The novelty with .NET Native is static compilation and integration of the Visual C++ backend. I don't if this is true, but I read somewhere that AOT was tabu at Sun. Oracle is now improving Java to cover the use cases where it still fails short vs other alternatives, so having an AOT compiler in the reference JDK instead of forcing devs to get it from a third party is part of their roadmap. How it will look like in the end, it is not 100% clear.