4 ms·

>Believe me people, the problem is real. It would be nice if you provided concrete examples, because I've had very much the opposite experience as you. From m

>Believe me people, the problem is real. It would be nice if you provided concrete examples, because I've had very much the opposite experience as you. From my perspective the problems are grossly exaggerated.

michaelbuddy 11y ago
>Believe me the problem is real I guess we should all go ahead and believe him. I mean he did write a comment on the internet which consisted of some form of empty hearsay. That's all the proof any of us should need.
- dudul 11y ago
  Last time I checked they didn't just let anybody write comments on the Internet.
richmarr 11y ago
> It would be nice if you provided concrete examples, because I've had very much the opposite experience as you He said, while providing no concrete examples :)
- omginternets 11y ago
  The burden of proof is on the other guy... it's hard to prove a negative. (but the joke is well-taken).
  - jordigh 11y ago
    It's not a negative. You have to demonstrate that there are as many women as men, you have to demonstrate that their grants are comparable to men's, and you have to demonstrate that most women speak highly of the selection process and how fair they found it. Please catalogue your evidence with citations whenever possible, and make sure you use reputable sources. Please also disclose your precise statistical procedure and experimental setup so that we may assess the validity of your findings. The questionnaires that you have given to women to assess their satisfaction are also of interest, as changes in wording can elicit different responses. I hope your experiment procedure has controlled for that.
    - omginternets 11y ago
      What are you on about? Person A: "I observe a bias". Person B (me): "Please show me the bias. I haven't seen it." You (to me): "Prove that you don't observe a bias". Christ, the level of discourse in these conversations is abysmal. We've reached the point where asking for citations is met with the response of "citation needed".
      - gozo 11y ago
        There's no need to paraphrase a conversation that is already present. The problem is you didn't only ask for citations, on something that was also clearly an anecdote, but also made your own greater claim i.e. the absence of something, without even providing your own anecdote. That is what you are being asked for citations on. Sure, you can nitpick over the use of the word prevalent, but it's quite clear from the context that the conclusion was drawn on basis of the experience described (other than the article).
        omginternets 11y ago
        Then you've misunderstood: "claims of X seem exaggerated" can (and should) be taken as "the evidence for X is weak" (hence my request for more). Anyway you want to cut it, this is a completely pedantic derailment of the original point: OP is making completely empty declarations.
      - 7Z7 11y ago
        >Person B (me): "Please show me the bias. I haven't seen it." You didn't only disbelieve his statement, you offered a different claim.
      - jordigh 11y ago
        A bias is not bigfoot. You can clearly prove that there is fairness ("no bias", but we can phrase your negative as a positive) by simply showing that things are equal. All you have to do is count males and females and show that they are equal. If things are not equal, you can still prove that there is no bias by asking the disadvantaged group for their opinion. It's not like polling this group is impossible.

michaelbuddy 11y ago

>Believe me the problem is real I guess we should all go ahead and believe him. I mean he did write a comment on the internet which consisted of some form of empty hearsay. That's all the proof any of us should need.

dudul 11y ago
Last time I checked they didn't just let anybody write comments on the Internet.

richmarr 11y ago

> It would be nice if you provided concrete examples, because I've had very much the opposite experience as you He said, while providing no concrete examples :)

omginternets 11y ago
The burden of proof is on the other guy... it's hard to prove a negative. (but the joke is well-taken).
- jordigh 11y ago
  It's not a negative. You have to demonstrate that there are as many women as men, you have to demonstrate that their grants are comparable to men's, and you have to demonstrate that most women speak highly of the selection process and how fair they found it. Please catalogue your evidence with citations whenever possible, and make sure you use reputable sources. Please also disclose your precise statistical procedure and experimental setup so that we may assess the validity of your findings. The questionnaires that you have given to women to assess their satisfaction are also of interest, as changes in wording can elicit different responses. I hope your experiment procedure has controlled for that.
  - omginternets 11y ago
    What are you on about? Person A: "I observe a bias". Person B (me): "Please show me the bias. I haven't seen it." You (to me): "Prove that you don't observe a bias". Christ, the level of discourse in these conversations is abysmal. We've reached the point where asking for citations is met with the response of "citation needed".
    - gozo 11y ago
      There's no need to paraphrase a conversation that is already present. The problem is you didn't only ask for citations, on something that was also clearly an anecdote, but also made your own greater claim i.e. the absence of something, without even providing your own anecdote. That is what you are being asked for citations on. Sure, you can nitpick over the use of the word prevalent, but it's quite clear from the context that the conclusion was drawn on basis of the experience described (other than the article).
      - omginternets 11y ago
        Then you've misunderstood: "claims of X seem exaggerated" can (and should) be taken as "the evidence for X is weak" (hence my request for more). Anyway you want to cut it, this is a completely pedantic derailment of the original point: OP is making completely empty declarations.
    - 7Z7 11y ago
      >Person B (me): "Please show me the bias. I haven't seen it." You didn't only disbelieve his statement, you offered a different claim.
    - jordigh 11y ago
      A bias is not bigfoot. You can clearly prove that there is fairness ("no bias", but we can phrase your negative as a positive) by simply showing that things are equal. All you have to do is count males and females and show that they are equal. If things are not equal, you can still prove that there is no bias by asking the disadvantaged group for their opinion. It's not like polling this group is impossible.