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Ask HN: Any proven natural (without meds) ways to "reset" and restore gut flora? Context: I grew up in India and to this day, there is a tendancy by Doctors to

Ask HN: Any proven natural (without meds) ways to "reset" and restore gut flora? Context: I grew up in India and to this day, there is a tendancy by Doctors to prescribe Antibiotics for anything, even cold viruses and non-bacterial illnesses. Erythromycin is 1 such antibiotic that Indian doctors prescribe for things such as the common cold, cough and similar seasonal illnesses. Due to this, I've developed a lot of food allergies and my gut is hosed. So I was wondering if anyone has been able to successfully "reset" their gut and regrow the good bacterial and improve their immune system. Thank you!!

harigov 11y ago
Isn't that what probiotics is for?
- svachalek 11y ago
  In theory. I can't remember the source but I've read that studies have shown some benefits while probiotics or yogurt are going through your system, but no lasting "colonization" of the bacteria. I have an irritable gut and I've never really noticed either yogurt or probiotics having an effect on that in either direction. (Antibiotics really screw it up for a while.)
aaronbrethorst 11y ago
Fecal transplants seem to have a high success rate of fixing some gut health issues[1]. I've never tried one, though. I take probiotics on a daily basis, but research is much more scant for them[2]. That said, I notice a marked difference when I stop taking them for a few days. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic#Research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic#Research
- Natsu 11y ago
  Odd, my own anecdata is that I took Lactobasillus GG after antibiotics and saw great improvement. But I only seem to need to take it sporadically as a boost after first taking it daily for some weeks on the theory that this would help get a culture established and the rest would be occasional maintenance. Obviously, it's not at all scientific, so I have no idea what might work for others.
- Cheyana 11y ago
  Fecal transplants for the win, with my friend's mother-in-law. She had one a few weeks ago after suffering with digestive issues for a while and she's been great ever since.
sparkie 11y ago
Not proven, but Eat Fermented foods, lots of fiber, more veg, occasional fatty meats. Eliminate sugar, reduce carbs, exercise. Edit: I should probably add: Slowly introduce the fermented foods. If you're not used to them, might cause a few visits to the toilet if you have too much.
s_q_b 11y ago
To add to the anec-data, conversely, I was refused antibiotics for years in the United States as a child, and it was only after switching physicians and careful monitoring that they realized my sinuses were severely infected. I've been put through the gamut of antibiotics since, and noticed no change in digestion, temperament, allergies or any other adverse effects.
- davidw 11y ago
  Don't get the downvotes. Sinus infections are a serious quality of life issue for some of us. I've had them drag on for weeks, then after a day of antibiotics, I feel like a new man.
  - unclebucknasty 11y ago
    Wow. Which antibiotic(s)? I've found that I don't generally get a noticeable therapeutic effect until near the end of the antibiotics course with sinusitis.
    - davidw 11y ago
      Maybe it wasn't a sinus infection? I hate the damn things because they're a lot like a cold and it seems like the recommendation is "if you're still miserable after 2 weeks, maybe you should go to a doctor". Then you discover that you could have been feeling better days ago...
      - ars 11y ago
        Once you get a sinus infection once you are prone to them after. What you need to watch out for is a clogged nostril, no air in the sinuses means an infection. So that's the goal: Get air in there. Try antihistamines, they work sometimes - even if you don't otherwise need them, if they clear your sinuses it's worth it. You can also try "air hunger", if your body feels it needs extra air it will open the closed sinus. The best way to do this is to run up and down some stairs until it's fully open - then get lots of air in there and blow your nose. It'll close right back up, but it will still help. Blowing your nose will also cause it to close, so hold off until it's fully open, even if you feel you need to blow your nose right away. (Or do it twice.) Another method is to hold your breath till you need air really really badly (not just a bit, but really badly), this can also cause it to open, but is more unpleasant (but might be your only option if too weak to run). A tip for both methods: Close the nostril that was open before with your finger and breath a lot through the one that used to be closed. You might be able to convince your body to switch which sinus it closes. This is good since you can alternate and get air in both. Doesn't always work though.
CuriouslyC 11y ago
It isn't possible to do a "full" reset without antibiotics (and even then it isn't 100% complete). The next best thing you can do is fasting. Fasting greatly restricts the food supply to the microbes in your gut (gut mucus production still feeds them to a degree), causing a fairly large die-off and shift in bacterial equilibrium. Anywhere between 4 and 7 days is a good target, and it doesn't have to be a strict fast, a little fruit juice or tea is fine.
- justboxing 11y ago
  Thanks! Several people have told me about this too. I will try it.
  - rhinoceraptor 11y ago
    It also might be easier to tolerate if you do a ketogenic (very high fat, moderate protein, very low carb) diet for a week or two before. That way you transition to burning exclusively fat, but you can still eat. The not eating thing is actually pretty tolerable if you are already ketotic. But the transition to ketosis can be rough, and it's easier if you can eat while that happens. One of the biggest things when you fast or do a ketogenic diet, you lose a lot of water (and with it, salt!), so maintaining electrolyte balance is huge. Your blood pressure will go down, and you'll feel awful if you don't add in some salt.
suneilp 11y ago
Monolaurin is a natural antibiotic. It's on the GRAS (generally regarded as safe) list. My doctor suggested it to me. It won't impact healthy bacteria. It's found in coconuts (oil being the best source) and human breast milk... in other words it's one of the first things we have all consumed. It's OTC. Ordinary probiotics such as the powdery capsules that is so prevalent aren't the most effective. They don't get retained as well. Liquid ones will stick to the small intestinal walls more easily. I implemented my own hack by eating something that is mucilaginous which sticks to the intestines. Then I take a capsule shortly afterwards. Seems to work well... for me. This protocol worked for me after I hosed my gut microbiome which caused me to lose 80 lbs in 2 months. Take of it as you will. Exercise is critically important, when you digestion is in turmoil as peristalsis likely gets impacted, at least it did for me. Peristalsis is the undulation of the esophagus, stomach, and intestines which pushes food forward. Exercise restarts this if it isn't functioning correctly. It's important for keeping the healthy bacteria in the large intestines out of the small intestines. You don't want to cross the streams in this case as it can be very painful and even debilitating. That's my recipe for a holistic reset and restoration of floral balance.
- justboxing 11y ago
  Thank you so much. I will try the Monolaurin. I do exercise 6 days a week -- Boxing and circuit training and running -- also lifelong vegetarian, recently turned vegan.
DanBC 11y ago
Eat fibre. > I've developed a lot of food allergies Really? EDIT: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut... >Your gut is the site of constant turf wars. Hundreds of bacterial species—along with fungi, archaea and viruses—do battle daily, competing for resources. Some companies advocate for consuming more probiotics, live beneficial bacteria, to improve microbial communities in our gut, but more and more research supports the idea that the most powerful approach might be to better feed the good bacteria we already harbor. Their meal of choice? Fiber. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120628131358.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120628131358.ht... > A University of Illinois study shows that dietary fiber promotes a shift in the gut toward different types of beneficial bacteria. And the microbes that live in the gut, scientists now believe, can support a healthy gastrointestinal tract as well as affect our susceptibility to conditions as varied as type 2 diabetes, obesity, inflammatory bowel disease, colon cancer, and autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis. > As these microbes ferment fiber in the intestine, short-chain fatty acids and other metabolites are produced, resulting in many health benefits for the host, said Kelly Swanson, a U of I professor of animal sciences. http://press.psprings.co.uk/gut/june/gut308778.pdf http://press.psprings.co.uk/gut/june/gut308778.pdf http://time.com/3936636/diet-gut-bacteria/ http://time.com/3936636/diet-gut-bacteria/ > The good news is that your initial Akkermansia levels are not your fate. People who started out with lower stores of Akkermansia had more after they followed the fiber-rich calorie-restricted diet. You can increase these bacterial populations by eating fiber, Cani’s research suggests, which acts as a prebiotic in the gut and has a beneficial effect on some bacteria.
- justboxing 11y ago
  Thanks Dan. I did a lot of research on fiber and ended up getting confused. For instance, does it matter what type of fiber the food has i.e. soluble vs insoluble? Also, what fruits and vegetables are naturally rich in fiber. And of those, do you have to eat the skin to get the fiber? Finally, does cooking remove or reduce fiber content?
  - cdcarter 11y ago
hasenj 11y ago
Probiotic pills? Also, yogurt, which as far as I'm concerned is the same as a probiotic pill, but less controlled.

harigov 11y ago

Isn't that what probiotics is for?

svachalek 11y ago
In theory. I can't remember the source but I've read that studies have shown some benefits while probiotics or yogurt are going through your system, but no lasting "colonization" of the bacteria. I have an irritable gut and I've never really noticed either yogurt or probiotics having an effect on that in either direction. (Antibiotics really screw it up for a while.)

aaronbrethorst 11y ago

Fecal transplants seem to have a high success rate of fixing some gut health issues[1]. I've never tried one, though. I take probiotics on a daily basis, but research is much more scant for them[2]. That said, I notice a marked difference when I stop taking them for a few days. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal_bacteriotherapy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic#Research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic#Research

Natsu 11y ago
Odd, my own anecdata is that I took Lactobasillus GG after antibiotics and saw great improvement. But I only seem to need to take it sporadically as a boost after first taking it daily for some weeks on the theory that this would help get a culture established and the rest would be occasional maintenance. Obviously, it's not at all scientific, so I have no idea what might work for others.
Cheyana 11y ago
Fecal transplants for the win, with my friend's mother-in-law. She had one a few weeks ago after suffering with digestive issues for a while and she's been great ever since.

sparkie 11y ago

Not proven, but Eat Fermented foods, lots of fiber, more veg, occasional fatty meats. Eliminate sugar, reduce carbs, exercise. Edit: I should probably add: Slowly introduce the fermented foods. If you're not used to them, might cause a few visits to the toilet if you have too much.

s_q_b 11y ago

To add to the anec-data, conversely, I was refused antibiotics for years in the United States as a child, and it was only after switching physicians and careful monitoring that they realized my sinuses were severely infected. I've been put through the gamut of antibiotics since, and noticed no change in digestion, temperament, allergies or any other adverse effects.

davidw 11y ago
Don't get the downvotes. Sinus infections are a serious quality of life issue for some of us. I've had them drag on for weeks, then after a day of antibiotics, I feel like a new man.
- unclebucknasty 11y ago
  Wow. Which antibiotic(s)? I've found that I don't generally get a noticeable therapeutic effect until near the end of the antibiotics course with sinusitis.
  - davidw 11y ago
    Maybe it wasn't a sinus infection? I hate the damn things because they're a lot like a cold and it seems like the recommendation is "if you're still miserable after 2 weeks, maybe you should go to a doctor". Then you discover that you could have been feeling better days ago...
    - ars 11y ago
      Once you get a sinus infection once you are prone to them after. What you need to watch out for is a clogged nostril, no air in the sinuses means an infection. So that's the goal: Get air in there. Try antihistamines, they work sometimes - even if you don't otherwise need them, if they clear your sinuses it's worth it. You can also try "air hunger", if your body feels it needs extra air it will open the closed sinus. The best way to do this is to run up and down some stairs until it's fully open - then get lots of air in there and blow your nose. It'll close right back up, but it will still help. Blowing your nose will also cause it to close, so hold off until it's fully open, even if you feel you need to blow your nose right away. (Or do it twice.) Another method is to hold your breath till you need air really really badly (not just a bit, but really badly), this can also cause it to open, but is more unpleasant (but might be your only option if too weak to run). A tip for both methods: Close the nostril that was open before with your finger and breath a lot through the one that used to be closed. You might be able to convince your body to switch which sinus it closes. This is good since you can alternate and get air in both. Doesn't always work though.

CuriouslyC 11y ago

It isn't possible to do a "full" reset without antibiotics (and even then it isn't 100% complete). The next best thing you can do is fasting. Fasting greatly restricts the food supply to the microbes in your gut (gut mucus production still feeds them to a degree), causing a fairly large die-off and shift in bacterial equilibrium. Anywhere between 4 and 7 days is a good target, and it doesn't have to be a strict fast, a little fruit juice or tea is fine.

justboxing 11y ago
Thanks! Several people have told me about this too. I will try it.
- rhinoceraptor 11y ago
  It also might be easier to tolerate if you do a ketogenic (very high fat, moderate protein, very low carb) diet for a week or two before. That way you transition to burning exclusively fat, but you can still eat. The not eating thing is actually pretty tolerable if you are already ketotic. But the transition to ketosis can be rough, and it's easier if you can eat while that happens. One of the biggest things when you fast or do a ketogenic diet, you lose a lot of water (and with it, salt!), so maintaining electrolyte balance is huge. Your blood pressure will go down, and you'll feel awful if you don't add in some salt.

suneilp 11y ago

Monolaurin is a natural antibiotic. It's on the GRAS (generally regarded as safe) list. My doctor suggested it to me. It won't impact healthy bacteria. It's found in coconuts (oil being the best source) and human breast milk... in other words it's one of the first things we have all consumed. It's OTC. Ordinary probiotics such as the powdery capsules that is so prevalent aren't the most effective. They don't get retained as well. Liquid ones will stick to the small intestinal walls more easily. I implemented my own hack by eating something that is mucilaginous which sticks to the intestines. Then I take a capsule shortly afterwards. Seems to work well... for me. This protocol worked for me after I hosed my gut microbiome which caused me to lose 80 lbs in 2 months. Take of it as you will. Exercise is critically important, when you digestion is in turmoil as peristalsis likely gets impacted, at least it did for me. Peristalsis is the undulation of the esophagus, stomach, and intestines which pushes food forward. Exercise restarts this if it isn't functioning correctly. It's important for keeping the healthy bacteria in the large intestines out of the small intestines. You don't want to cross the streams in this case as it can be very painful and even debilitating. That's my recipe for a holistic reset and restoration of floral balance.

justboxing 11y ago
Thank you so much. I will try the Monolaurin. I do exercise 6 days a week -- Boxing and circuit training and running -- also lifelong vegetarian, recently turned vegan.

DanBC 11y ago

Eat fibre. > I've developed a lot of food allergies Really? EDIT: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut... >Your gut is the site of constant turf wars. Hundreds of bacterial species—along with fungi, archaea and viruses—do battle daily, competing for resources. Some companies advocate for consuming more probiotics, live beneficial bacteria, to improve microbial communities in our gut, but more and more research supports the idea that the most powerful approach might be to better feed the good bacteria we already harbor. Their meal of choice? Fiber. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120628131358.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120628131358.ht... > A University of Illinois study shows that dietary fiber promotes a shift in the gut toward different types of beneficial bacteria. And the microbes that live in the gut, scientists now believe, can support a healthy gastrointestinal tract as well as affect our susceptibility to conditions as varied as type 2 diabetes, obesity, inflammatory bowel disease, colon cancer, and autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis. > As these microbes ferment fiber in the intestine, short-chain fatty acids and other metabolites are produced, resulting in many health benefits for the host, said Kelly Swanson, a U of I professor of animal sciences. http://press.psprings.co.uk/gut/june/gut308778.pdf http://press.psprings.co.uk/gut/june/gut308778.pdf http://time.com/3936636/diet-gut-bacteria/ http://time.com/3936636/diet-gut-bacteria/ > The good news is that your initial Akkermansia levels are not your fate. People who started out with lower stores of Akkermansia had more after they followed the fiber-rich calorie-restricted diet. You can increase these bacterial populations by eating fiber, Cani’s research suggests, which acts as a prebiotic in the gut and has a beneficial effect on some bacteria.

justboxing 11y ago
Thanks Dan. I did a lot of research on fiber and ended up getting confused. For instance, does it matter what type of fiber the food has i.e. soluble vs insoluble? Also, what fruits and vegetables are naturally rich in fiber. And of those, do you have to eat the skin to get the fiber? Finally, does cooking remove or reduce fiber content?
- cdcarter 11y ago

hasenj 11y ago

Probiotic pills? Also, yogurt, which as far as I'm concerned is the same as a probiotic pill, but less controlled.