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One thing to keep in mind is that even if we can't use Gecko on iOS, having _something_ on iOS rather than nothing means that people who use Firefox on Desktop

by Osmose 11y ago

One thing to keep in mind is that even if we can't use Gecko on iOS, having _something_ on iOS rather than nothing means that people who use Firefox on Desktop or other platforms will be less likely to switch away due to issues like their bookmarks / tabs / etc not syncing between devices. It's an indirect way of getting more people to use Firefox (which promotes standards) over another option, but it's certainly better than telling iOS users "If you want synced stuff, switch to Chrome or Safari."

crabasa 11y ago
I agree with you. I think it's really interesting to think about what a "browser" or "user agent" really is. It's clearly more than just rendering, it's things like bookmarks/syncing/plugins/etc. I just worry that if Mozilla doesn't figure out their mobile-first strategy, having will Firefox on iOS will only serve to slow the bleeding, not really help with getting back to growth.
dogma1138 11y ago
It's a pretty simplistic view of things, Chrome on iOS isn't that great, even if you use Chrome on all other devices the account sync and all the other Google features might not be worth the performance issues compared to Safari. FF Account Sync isn't as robust as Google's (not saying it's bad, it's not intended to be as universal and or invasive) so you will get for the most part even less out of it. FF on Android is a true FF build, you can run most addons on it and it uses Gecko as their rendering engine. The problem with iOS is that we are going back to a single eco-system when it comes to rendering engines this means that everyone needs to get inline with how Apple thinks that the web should work which we had to suffer through before when Microsoft polluted the web with their own interpretations and "proprietary" standards. Also from a security POV this is pretty damn awful if there is a vulnerability in WebKit/iOS Webview or however Apple wants to call it, there's a good chance that every browser will be vulnerable this means that until Apple can patch it out there is no alternative non-vulnerable browser for the iOS ecosystem. This pretty much reminds me of the late 90's early 2000's where there were a billion "alternative" browsers like NeoBrowser and the like that were nothing more than a reskin of Internet Explorer, the fact that you can't push out your own low-level components to one of the most popular mobile platforms in the western world is pretty god damn sad. I for one would have actually loved it if Mozilla and Google would've make a stand against Apple and say if you don't allow us to build our browsers like we want too we're not going to be on your system. But sadly because Apple users are the more "important" (as they have more money to spend) than alternative platforms it doesn't seem likely to happen.
- Osmose 11y ago
  For years Mozilla agreed with you and took that stand. Nothing happened. Nothing changed. Continuing to take that stand won't suddenly make change happen. It hasn't worked and it won't work. Mozilla still agrees that it's BS that we can't have Gecko on iOS. But we have to do something different.

by Osmose 11y ago

crabasa 11y ago

I agree with you. I think it's really interesting to think about what a "browser" or "user agent" really is. It's clearly more than just rendering, it's things like bookmarks/syncing/plugins/etc. I just worry that if Mozilla doesn't figure out their mobile-first strategy, having will Firefox on iOS will only serve to slow the bleeding, not really help with getting back to growth.

dogma1138 11y ago

It's a pretty simplistic view of things, Chrome on iOS isn't that great, even if you use Chrome on all other devices the account sync and all the other Google features might not be worth the performance issues compared to Safari. FF Account Sync isn't as robust as Google's (not saying it's bad, it's not intended to be as universal and or invasive) so you will get for the most part even less out of it. FF on Android is a true FF build, you can run most addons on it and it uses Gecko as their rendering engine. The problem with iOS is that we are going back to a single eco-system when it comes to rendering engines this means that everyone needs to get inline with how Apple thinks that the web should work which we had to suffer through before when Microsoft polluted the web with their own interpretations and "proprietary" standards. Also from a security POV this is pretty damn awful if there is a vulnerability in WebKit/iOS Webview or however Apple wants to call it, there's a good chance that every browser will be vulnerable this means that until Apple can patch it out there is no alternative non-vulnerable browser for the iOS ecosystem. This pretty much reminds me of the late 90's early 2000's where there were a billion "alternative" browsers like NeoBrowser and the like that were nothing more than a reskin of Internet Explorer, the fact that you can't push out your own low-level components to one of the most popular mobile platforms in the western world is pretty god damn sad. I for one would have actually loved it if Mozilla and Google would've make a stand against Apple and say if you don't allow us to build our browsers like we want too we're not going to be on your system. But sadly because Apple users are the more "important" (as they have more money to spend) than alternative platforms it doesn't seem likely to happen.

Osmose 11y ago
For years Mozilla agreed with you and took that stand. Nothing happened. Nothing changed. Continuing to take that stand won't suddenly make change happen. It hasn't worked and it won't work. Mozilla still agrees that it's BS that we can't have Gecko on iOS. But we have to do something different.